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Poll Question: .
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
4 [50.00%]
1 [12.50%]
0 [0.00%]
2 [25.00%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [12.50%]
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drgonzaga View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 02:47
There is quite a difference between History and Hagiography, Reck, and unless you are the retired PR man for one Cassius Clay aka Mohammed Ali this question of "who is the greatest" is entirely superfluous.
Honi soit qui mal y pense
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Reck View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 02:50

.



Edited by Reck - 15 Mar 2010 at 00:06
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Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 09:20
Stop picking on the new guys drgonzaga!
 
For that matter, stop making personal attacks when someone says something that doesn't quite make sense. At somepoint in everyone's life you just don't know and always deserve the benefit of the doubt in that regard.
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Reginmund View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 19:20
How you compare those guys depends entirely on whether you include their posthumous impact in the assessment. The problem with posthumous impacts it that they can't really be ascribed to the person himself but his successors and how they made use of his legacy.
 
The question itself is meaningless though. It's important to study their achievements to understand history, but establishing who was "greater" teaches us nothing, it's just a pissing contest for the sake of having a pissing contest.
Sing, goddess, of Achilles' ruinous anger
Which brought ten thousand pains to the Achaeans,
And cast the souls of many stalwart heroes
To Hades, and their bodies to the dogs
And birds of prey
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Gharanai View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 06:53
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Essentially, the leadership under the Rashidun and Umayyad (specially the Sufyanids) caliphs despite the fitnas (really an expression of traditional Arabian blood feuds) turned Islam into a multi-cultural phenomenon, and in that respect the name that should replace Muhammad above is that of
Muawiyah!
 
Well my vote also goes to prophet Muhammad (PBUH), not only because I am a muslim and that's what shall I think but because as said before, the impact that his steps and intiations left on the world of today.
It is really hard to find people around the world upon whose name (even after centuries of his death) gets ready to die (Although I am against it and Prophet's words itself shows a rejection of such actions).
Now some people are motivated with some propagandas to do so but there are people who are truely devotional and spiritual about it.
 
That's who much he is loved, now lets see his lifetime. That in itself is an amazing story of how a middle class person unites the most versatile (whose only aim was fighting each other) people in the Arabian Peninsula and introduces a new religion.
His capability of command in the battle field is also beyond question where he with his tactical superiority challenged forces way greater than his, and still succeeded.
 
 
As far as your point drgonzaga, I disagree with you about hazrat Muawiyah's (R) being the person who multi-culturized Islam since it was done way back during hazrat Omer's (R) time when Islam got beyond the traditional Arabian borders (Most famous of them the Persian extension and the east Byzantine extension).
But then you see in such struggles soldiers are meant to follow a rule set by the leaders and it's the quality and capability of the leaders guidence and way that takes the soldiers toward victories.
It's always about those who initiate a struggle or a process and those are the ones who are remembered for the achievement, in prophet Muhammad's (PBUH) case it was his guidence that took these great Suhaba's to such victories and extends.
 
It's like you, me and everyone else does know who was the first person to step on the moon (Armstrong) but does anyone around know who was the second person who did (for sure most of general answers would be ??? but if you google a bit you will come with Buzz Aldrin, I think you got my point)?
 
 


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drgonzaga View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 08:01
Gharani wrote:
As far as your point drgonzaga, I disagree with you about hazrat Muawiyah's (R) being the person who multi-culturized Islam since it was done way back during hazrat Omer's (R) time when Islam got beyond the traditional Arabian borders (Most famous of them the Persian extension and the east Byzantine extension). But then you see in such struggles soldiers are meant to follow a rule set by the leaders and it's the quality and capability of the leaders guidence and way that takes the soldiers toward victories.
 
In that distincion, we would have to agree to disagree because, and here I will use Egyptian history as the foil, despite the prowess of Amr ibn al-As in 639-645, the grafting of Islam within an Egyptian cultural milieu does belong within the ambit of the Umayyads. The Coptic majority did not disappear within the the confines of the 7th century, and the process of conversion and acculturation is an 8th century phenomenon. Yes, in a way we are parsing here but the conversion of the Copts (particularly the peasantry) was a process that required time and was essentially unknown during the years of the Righteous Hazrats. Not that the Umayyads were not exposed to periodic revolts between AD 725-750. Nevertheless, with the advent of Arabic as the official state language in 706 you witness the incubus of an Islamicized Egypt. By the way, I chose Muawiyah for the simple reason of the rapport he established within Syria and the utilization of non-Arabs within the political hierarchy. 
Honi soit qui mal y pense
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