| FORUM | ARCHIVE |                    | TOTAL QUIZ RESULT |


  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Beautiful indgenous clothes and adornment
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Welcome stranger, click here to read about some of the great benefits of registering for a free account with us and joining us in our global online community.


Beautiful indgenous clothes and adornment

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Carcharodon View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 04 May 2007
Location: Northern Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 4959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Beautiful indgenous clothes and adornment
    Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 10:58
In many places on earth the wearing of traditional adornments and clothes among aboriginal peoples have been subjected to a lot of pressure from the surrounding so called modern or developed societies. Sometimes it has been for religious reasons when missionaries and their likes have tried to force indigenous peoples to wear so called proper clothes. Nowadays it is also common that pressure from commercial forces, as the fashion industry, make it sometimes difficult for indigenous peoples to wear their true, traditional clothes.
Also they often meet ridicule and incomprehension from representatives from the surrounding society.

It is time to try to revert such a trend. It is time to promote the wearing of beautiful indigenous adornment and clothing instead of the uniform clothes of the modern fashion industry or the so called proper and often unhealthy clothes promoted by christian missionaries or muslim fundamentalists.

Here are some examples of native adornment.

Adornment from the Kiriwina, the Trobriands, Melanesia, South Pacific
http://images.travelpod.com/users/rodeime/png05-trobs.1152178920.kiriwina_0111.jpg

Clothes and adornment from Cuna people, Panama

Traditional dress, Miao people, China

Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Parnell View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Location: Barcelona
Status: Offline
Points: 3227
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 12:22
I wonder do you realise how much you resemble one of those patronising Victorian gentleman admiring those noble savages running wild in their jungle?
http://xkcd.com/15/



Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. ~George Bernard Shaw
Back to Top
Styrbiorn View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3608
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 12:26
Don't be shy Carch, you can dress like the native you are too: http://www.vasenhantverk.se/





Edited by Styrbiorn - 06 Jul 2010 at 12:27
Back to Top
Carcharodon View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 04 May 2007
Location: Northern Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 4959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 13:06
Originally posted by Parnell Parnell wrote:

I wonder do you realise how much you resemble one of those patronising Victorian gentleman admiring those noble savages running wild in their jungle?

Nope, I am just interested in the variety of indigenous cultures that remarkably enough have been able to survive (hitherto) the onslaught of the mass culture that destroys cultural diversity and adaption and replaces it with mental (and often also physical) poverty.

Clothes are both artistic expressions and many times have important functions as cultural and social symbols and markers (besides their utalitarian functions). We can see that also in our own culture. By attacking indigenous peoples clothes (and other symbolic material expressions) we often attack their whole society. When Christian missionaries and Muslim fundamentalists try to put so called proper clothes on native peoples they also show their contempt for their culture and beliefs and ways of living. For example, in Sudan the muslim government tries to force the Nuba and other peoples to wear trousers and other body covering garments just to promote muslim morals and lifeways on these people.
Back to Top
Parnell View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Location: Barcelona
Status: Offline
Points: 3227
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 13:20
Most of the time indigeneous clothing is determined by nearby resources - hence, what is most economical will become the standard dress. Its ridiculous to cling on to the old ways in a world that can achieve more functional and efficient clothing.
http://xkcd.com/15/



Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. ~George Bernard Shaw
Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar
Kaveh ye Ahangar

Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Location: MidX,Engelistan
Status: Offline
Points: 12491
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 13:33
Quote Clothes are both artistic expressions and many times have important functions as cultural and social symbols and markers (besides their utalitarian functions). We can see that also in our own culture.


Have I ever told u how full of it you are?  Oh yes, plenty o times.
"There was glory in pissing, Corabb decided as he watched the stream curve out and make that familiar but unique sound as it hit the ground." So true.
Back to Top
Carcharodon View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 04 May 2007
Location: Northern Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 4959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 15:37
Originally posted by Parnell Parnell wrote:

Most of the time indigeneous clothing is determined by nearby resources - hence, what is most economical will become the standard dress. Its ridiculous to cling on to the old ways in a world that can achieve more functional and efficient clothing.

You clearly oversimplifying things. Much clothings are also aestetic and symbolic. Codes, ideologies, status and different kind of social interactions are expressed through clothing and adornment.

Even in our commercial culture such considerations are taken. Many of the clothes we have in our society is not the most practical ones, much of them are markers of status and our perception of beauty, which unfortuantely often is governed by the fashion industry and by media. So try not to make anyone believe that the clothings the dominant mass cultures try to enforce on indigenous peoples are always more functional or effective. Instead they are a part of an agenda of domination, indoctrination and deculturation.


Edited by Carcharodon - 06 Jul 2010 at 15:45
Back to Top
drgonzaga View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Plus Ultra

Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 16:00
This one takes the cake for intellectual dishonesty and inconsistency. Or has our poor deluded Carch forgotten that some of this dress comes at the expense of endangered species. Now before he goes on a bender over the beauties of the penis sheath, let me remind him that his picture of Cuna dress owes more to the benefits of the Industrial Revolution (synthetic dyes, the sewing machine) than to the old techniques represented by the mola. In fact, contemporary knock-offs are a veritable industry and a good source of local capital.
 
I've come to the conclusion that he regrets having missed the '60s:
 


Edited by drgonzaga - 30 Aug 2010 at 15:16
Honi soit qui mal y pense
Back to Top
Carcharodon View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 04 May 2007
Location: Northern Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 4959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 18:52
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

This one takes the cake for intellectual dishonesty and inconsistency. Or has our poor deluded Carch forgotten that some of this dress comes at the expense of endangered species.

Well, when did those species became endangered? Often after the place they lived in had become invaded by representants of the mass culture. 

 Now before he goes on a bender over the beauties of the penis sheath, let me remind him that his picture of Cuna dress owes more to the benefits of the Industrial Revolution (synthetic dyes, the sewing machine) than to the old techniques represented by the mola. In fact, contemporary knock-offs are a veritable industry and a good source of local capital.

Also native populations borrow techniques, color and other things, from other peoples, and they have always done so. But it is another thing when the foreigners from the mass culture come and swamp the indigenous peoples with a lot of commercial crap, or out of different ideological and religious reasons force them, or in other ways impose upon them, often very impractical and sometimes also dangerous clothes. At the same time outsiders try to indoctrinate native peoples to change their hairstyles, to change the kind of adornment and jewellry they wear, to try to get them to stop using traditional face and body painting and instead buy (for money they sometimes must earn through laboring for the invaders) a lot of cheap junk. Also at several occations in different parts of the world the clothes that missionaries and others have tried to impose on native peoples have been a source of different diseases as for example pneumonia, because those clothes have been very unhealthy in certain climatic conditions.

But not enough with that. At the same time as some missionaries have condemned the wearing of traditional clothes and adornment, they have still taken such clothes and adornment (together with other kind of art and traditional products) and sold it on the international market. Often the revenues from such sale have not returned to the native peoples themselves.

 




Edited by Carcharodon - 06 Jul 2010 at 18:57
Back to Top
Carcharodon View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 04 May 2007
Location: Northern Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 4959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 18:55
Traditional hairstyle and adornment from the Himba people in Namibia:


Back to Top
drgonzaga View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Plus Ultra

Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 21:00
Carch, you are incorrigible and any one with an ounce of intelligence would admit that your rhetorical antics produce but one effect: ennui!
Honi soit qui mal y pense
Back to Top
Al Jassas View Drop Down
King
King


Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5000
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 22:11
Why didn't post the entire picture of that woman Carch, she does "wear" her traditional clothes.
 
Al-Jassas
Back to Top
Harburs View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Chieftain

Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3148
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 00:03
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Why didn't post the entire picture of that woman Carch, she does "wear" her traditional clothes.
 
Al-Jassas
We have some under pressure religious members Wink which the complete photo may offend them, or perhaps give them a blasting relief.Embarrassed
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" Zoroaster.
Back to Top
Al Jassas View Drop Down
King
King


Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5000
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 00:09
I have no problem in seeing the entire picture, a guy has to get a break some times.
 
 
Al-Jassas
Back to Top
Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master


Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Location: Bush Capital
Status: Offline
Points: 7830
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 00:25
Personally I think its funny that clothes manufactured, designed, and predominant in China are referred to as western clothes.
 
And please Carch, why don't you give credit to muslim countries for keeping traditional dress in the face of cheap Chinese imports? For example, vietnam's textile industry has collapsed due to "western" chinese clothes while Malaysia's textile industry is doing fine.
How come a Melanesian who insists on their traditional dress (or lack of it) is not a fundamentalist while an Irani who insists on their traditional dress is?
Back to Top
Mixcoatl View Drop Down
King
King


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Location: Poyais
Status: Offline
Points: 5042
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 05:12
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

How come a Melanesian who insists on their traditional dress (or lack of it) is not a fundamentalist while an Irani who insists on their traditional dress is?

Hear hear.
This is precisely the kind of thing that shows the whole 'indigenous peoples' movement is little less than a political correct form of racism.

Also I'd like to add that most of the 'traditional' clothing of indigenous people in Latin America is actually 16th century Spanish clothing. Spanish laws forced the natives to wear at least three items of European clothing; they usually went to their local missionaries for ideas. The dress of indigenous peoples in Latin America tells little of their own culture (not of their precolumbian culture in any case); it does tell however what part of Spain the missionaries who converted them came from.
Back to Top
Flipper View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Location: Anatolia&Balkan
Status: Offline
Points: 2798
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 06:11
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

 
And please Carch, why don't you give credit to muslim countries for keeping traditional dress in the face of cheap Chinese imports?


For example Turkey... Smile
FΑΝΑΚΤΟΥ ΜΙΔΑ ΓΟΝΟΣ
Back to Top
Carcharodon View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 04 May 2007
Location: Northern Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 4959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 08:46
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

 Personally I think its funny that clothes manufactured, designed, and predominant in China are referred to as western clothes.

The style of them was at least originally western. At least they are not traditional Chinese clothes.
 
 
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

 And please Carch, why don't you give credit to muslim countries for keeping traditional dress in the face of cheap Chinese imports? For example, vietnam's textile industry has collapsed due to "western" chinese clothes while Malaysia's textile industry is doing fine.
How come a Melanesian who insists on their traditional dress (or lack of it) is not a fundamentalist while an Irani who insists on their traditional dress is?

Well, muslims also try to impose their ways of clothing on certain indigenous groups as in the case of Sudan I mentioned above. The Nuba and other indigenous peoples are to naked for the taste of some muslims. Even Christian girls in Sudan who wear knee short skirts are getting punished.

And in Iran and other places people (especially women) are forced to wear certain clothes, even if they do belong to some minorities. As a woman you must have certain clothes even if it is not your traditional clothes.

If you come to Melanesia they do not force you to adopt their clothes. But unfortunately Christian missionaries have tried to impose western (so called proper) clothing on Melanesians, even if they have not always succeeded.

Both Christianity and Islam are expansive, intolerant religions whos adherents many times try to force their ways on others.
Most aboriginal peoples do not go out forcing other peoples to adopt their ways of living or clothing.




Edited by Carcharodon - 07 Jul 2010 at 09:03
Back to Top
Carcharodon View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 04 May 2007
Location: Northern Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 4959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 09:01
Originally posted by Mixcoatl Mixcoatl wrote:

 
This is precisely the kind of thing that shows the whole 'indigenous peoples' movement is little less than a political correct form of racism.  

So if people want to keep their own cultures (or at least parts of it) and their own land it is suddenly racism?

Originally posted by Mixcoatl Mixcoatl wrote:

 Also I'd like to add that most of the 'traditional' clothing of indigenous people in Latin America is actually 16th century Spanish clothing. Spanish laws forced the natives to wear at least three items of European clothing; they usually went to their local missionaries for ideas. The dress of indigenous peoples in Latin America tells little of their own culture (not of their precolumbian culture in any case); it does tell however what part of Spain the missionaries who converted them came from.  

It is ofcourse different in different places. Some clothes are indeed influenced by Spanish or other European dress, others are not.

For example these clothes are not very portoguese:


Back to Top
Flipper View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Location: Anatolia&Balkan
Status: Offline
Points: 2798
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 10:42
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Both Christianity and Islam are expansive, intolerant religions whos adherents many times try to force their ways on others.
Most aboriginal peoples do not go out forcing other peoples to adopt their ways of living or clothing.


That is not correct comparison actually. In modern times aboriginal peoples had no possibility to do this, so in theory if the conditions allowed it, they could do have done it. Historically, both the Haatti in Anatolia and the Minoans in Greece made the Indoeuropean newcommers (the Nessi and the IE pre-Greeks) to adopt style of clothing and cultural characteristics. The same happened in Mesopotamia when the Iranic people arrived from the north.

On the other hand that is not a correct comparison either, since in all cases more or less the cultural inheritance was not forced upon the Indoeuropean invaders but adapted.


FΑΝΑΚΤΟΥ ΜΙΔΑ ΓΟΝΟΣ
Back to Top
Carcharodon View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 04 May 2007
Location: Northern Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 4959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 11:19
Originally posted by Flipper Flipper wrote:

That is not correct comparison actually. In modern times aboriginal peoples had no possibility to do this, so in theory if the conditions allowed it, they could do have done it. Historically, both the Haatti in Anatolia and the Minoans in Greece made the Indoeuropean newcommers (the Nessi and the IE pre-Greeks) to adopt style of clothing and cultural characteristics. The same happened in Mesopotamia when the Iranic people arrived from the north.
--
On the other hand that is not a correct comparison either, since in all cases more or less the cultural inheritance was not forced upon the Indoeuropean invaders but adapted.

Well, I mostly talk about more recent conditions among peoples that today are called indigenous, aboriginal or some times also tribal.


Back to Top
Flipper View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Location: Anatolia&Balkan
Status: Offline
Points: 2798
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 11:59
Yes, I know but as I said, we have no modern scenario that would give the possibility to natives to force their way to invading people.

On the other hand, the Ottoman Turks for example brought and inherited ways of culture in the lands they conquered. For example, musical instruments like kanun and saz that is used in Turkish music date back to Hurrian and Haati times in Anatolia. Chinese shadow play and vegetables like eggplant were imported by Turks. So, basically you could say that the exchange do not follow a general forcing pattern always. Some do, some do not. Some are inherited from the natives.
FΑΝΑΚΤΟΥ ΜΙΔΑ ΓΟΝΟΣ
Back to Top
Carcharodon View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 04 May 2007
Location: Northern Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 4959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 12:03
Originally posted by Flipper Flipper wrote:

Yes, I know but as I said, we have no modern scenario that would give the possibility to natives to force their way to invading people.

No we have not, but many times these native peoples are not engulfed by the agressive cultural and religious expansionist ideology like many Christians or Muslims.


Back to Top
Flipper View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Location: Anatolia&Balkan
Status: Offline
Points: 2798
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 12:05
Yes agreed on that.
FΑΝΑΚΤΟΥ ΜΙΔΑ ΓΟΝΟΣ
Back to Top
Mixcoatl View Drop Down
King
King


Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Location: Poyais
Status: Offline
Points: 5042
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2010 at 00:08
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:


Originally posted by Mixcoatl Mixcoatl wrote:

 This is precisely the kind of thing that shows the whole 'indigenous peoples' movement is little less than a political correct form of racism.  
So if people want to keep their own cultures (or at least parts of it) and their own land it is suddenly racism?

Yes.

If Swedish, Dutch or American people argue against foreigners and struggle to keep their culture clean or free from foreign influences no sane person would deny they are racists (or at least xenophobes). I don't see why they same shouldn't go for indigenous people.

Quote
Originally posted by Mixcoatl Mixcoatl wrote:

 Also I'd like to add that most of the 'traditional' clothing of indigenous people in Latin America is actually 16th century Spanish clothing. Spanish laws forced the natives to wear at least three items of European clothing; they usually went to their local missionaries for ideas. The dress of indigenous peoples in Latin America tells little of their own culture (not of their precolumbian culture in any case); it does tell however what part of Spain the missionaries who converted them came from.  

It is ofcourse different in different places. Some clothes are indeed influenced by Spanish or other European dress, others are not.
For example these clothes are not very portoguese:
[/quote]
Brazil. Clever.

My fault. I should have said 'Spanish America' instead of 'Latin America'. (I know too little about Portuguese colonial policy in Brazil to say anything sensible about it.)
Back to Top
drgonzaga View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Plus Ultra

Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2010 at 03:41
Ah, a photo-op for the usual suspects! The Kuikuro group (where else but in the Xingu Valley) stage these bits of public theater regularly...their usual apparel, t-shirts and shorts! The Brazilian photographer, Pedro de Rezende, has made a career of visiting Toca das Raposa in Sao Paulo for the Amerind festival where the Kuikuro set up their booth for the sale of of hammocks, benches, and handicrafts of all types (including jewelry such as their characteristic shell necklaces) and disseminates a lot of photography from the Xingu specially at Kuarup time. However, now that the Brazilian government has banned "tour groups" from entering the Xingu Indigenous National Park, these photo-ops will be few and far between. Seems the government wants to prevent them from being engulfed by the agenda driven do-gooders that fascinate Carch so fearfully.
 
By the way, please note that there is quite a distance from the Xingu Park to Toca da Raposo--and the Kuikuro do not get there by either walking or paddling a canoe!
Honi soit qui mal y pense
Back to Top
Carcharodon View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 04 May 2007
Location: Northern Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 4959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2010 at 10:21
Originally posted by Mixcoatl Mixcoatl wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:


Originally posted by Mixcoatl Mixcoatl wrote:

 This is precisely the kind of thing that shows the whole 'indigenous peoples' movement is little less than a political correct form of racism.  
So if people want to keep their own cultures (or at least parts of it) and their own land it is suddenly racism?

Yes.

If Swedish, Dutch or American people argue against foreigners and struggle to keep their culture clean or free from foreign influences no sane person would deny they are racists (or at least xenophobes). I don't see why they same shouldn't go for indigenous people. 
 

Because in Sweden Netherlands or America people are able to self choose (by democratic processes as elections or similar) if they want some immigration or foreign influence, they can also choose how much of immigration or foreign influence they want. Often the aboriginal peoples have no such choise. They just get invaded and many times displaced against their will. Many times their cultures have also been run over be the foreignerss, often with force or manipulation. 
Ofcourse they ought to have the right to protest against that.

By your logic invaded peoples like the French, or Russians during WWII would have been racists because they protested against, or fought the German invasion.

 
Originally posted by Mixcoatl Mixcoatl wrote:

 
My fault. I should have said 'Spanish America' instead of 'Latin America'. (I know too little about Portuguese colonial policy in Brazil to say anything sensible about it.)

Well, these clothes are not typical Spanish:



Back to Top
drgonzaga View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Plus Ultra

Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2010 at 21:07
Oh, great the Jivaros (which in Spanish is synonymous with "wild man")...er Carch are you now advocating the practice of "head hunting" as an indigeneous right! Early anthropologists just loved these tribes but pseudo-intellectuals have really confused matters by misusing a general 17th century term with a specific social group. "Jivaro" as with "Chichimeca" is a general descriptive but that does not stop the denizens of Internet posting from coflating misinformation. By the way, Carch, are you sure your note of these indigenes is not a function of your usual gassing about multinationals and modernization? Scratch the surface here and you will soon discover NGOs at their usual antics.
Honi soit qui mal y pense
Back to Top
fantasus View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 07 May 2009
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 1943
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2010 at 22:02
May this discussion be an example of the absurdities controverses about "racism" or "xenophobia" easily becomes? Of course allso european peoples may see a need to "protect their ways" - and they may have a point (perhaps even  - sometimes - be right!)
Back to Top
Carcharodon View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 04 May 2007
Location: Northern Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 4959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2010 at 22:39
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

 By the way, Carch, are you sure your note of these indigenes is not a function of your usual gassing about multinationals and modernization? Scratch the surface here and you will soon discover NGOs at their usual antics.

The interesting here is the variety of clothes and adornment among aboriginal peoples and their use of local materials (but also imported and traded materials have always occured) that is crafted in beautiful and ingenous ways.

As for example this well crafted grass skirt from the Trobriand islands:



This is not just something that protects the body, it is also an expression of culture, identity and aestethics.

Clothes as markers of identity, culture, relations, status is indeed an interesting subject.




Edited by Carcharodon - 08 Jul 2010 at 22:42
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.