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Egypt threatens to take back ancient obelisk

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    Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 13:16
Egypt threatens to demand back a 3500 year old Obelisk that is located in the Central Park in New York if the Americans do not take better care of it. The obelisk that honours Thutmosis III stands behind the Metripolitan Museum of Arts since 1881. It is 22 meters high.
In an angry letter to the mayor of New York, Secretary General of the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities Zhai Hawass writes that among other things the hieroglyphs on the obelisk have been heavily weathered.
 

 



Edited by Carcharodon - 11 Jan 2011 at 14:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 14:17
Basically bad care of artifacts should be penalized in any case. The question is how the obelisk arrived in NY? Anyone that has visited the museum in NY will notice there are many private collections (don't make me dig out photos) inside the museum that originate in countries where private persons cannot own an object legally. Add the fact that in the US auctions of archeological objects are done without providing documents of legal possession of them.


Edited by Flipper - 11 Jan 2011 at 15:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 14:34
Return the silver to Bolivia!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 18:09
Originally posted by Flipper Flipper wrote:

Basically bad care of artifacts should be penalized in any case. The question is how the obelisk arrived in NY? Anyone that has visited the museum in NY will notice there are many private collections (don't make me dig out photos) inside the museum that originate in countries where private persons cannot own an object legally. Add the fact that in the US auctions of archeological objects are done without providing documents of legal possession of them.
 
Well, that is not the instance here since this obelisk dating from the XVIIIth dynasty and the rule of Thutmosis III and its twin, which sits in London on the banks of the Thames, were gifts from the Egyptian government (the latter in 1879, and the former in 1881) and its Khedive, Tawfik Pasha [1879-1892]. The idea that these obleisks were ever "smuggled" out of Egypt is preposterous on its face, besides they were already experienced travelers, since they were originally erected at Heliopolis and were then transferred to Alexandria by Augustus Caesar in 12 BC as accompanying sentinels to the Caesarium. Besides what does the Metropolitan Museum have to do with this object since it sits in Central Park and is definitely not its property nor is it responsible for its maintenance. With the exception of the Temple of Dendur, the Egyptian Collection held by the MMA is hardly noteworthy and essentially associated with the Ptolemaic Period. As for the Dendur temple, it is actually a Roman edifice erected by Governor Petronius about 15 BC, and it was also a donation of  the Egyptian government to the United States in 1965 (as part of the archaeological rescue associated with the construction of Nasser's Aswan Dam). Essentially, it sound more like our esteemed Director of Antiquities needed a headline so as to keep his name in the papers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 19:39
If that is the case DrG, then I pass. I am not familiar with the case and that's why I asked how the obelisk got there. Thanks for the clarification!


Edited by Flipper - 11 Jan 2011 at 19:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 20:04
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Return the silver to Bolivia!
 
Since there was no "Bolivia" during the heyday of silver mining in the region of Chuquisaca, any Bolivian government would be hard put at claiming such as their "artistic and cultural" property. They'd have better luck at reclaiming Arica! Ooops, they do.
 
 
But then good old Hawass has been on his "trip" for quite a while:
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 20:23
The Republic of Egypt didn't exists in the times of Ramses, either. So, your argument lacks sense
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 20:41
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

The Republic of Egypt didn't exists in the times of Ramses, either. So, your argument lacks sense


But they were still Egyptians... Egyptian is one of the oldest ethnonyms we know and that is for a reason.

In any case, it should not be viewed whether a republic was there or not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 20:48
Then, return the silver to the Aymaras.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 20:57
Careful pinguin, less some Bolivian may happen across this and starts demanding that your country hands back the Atacama region.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 21:02
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Then, return the silver to the Aymaras.
 
Shades of El Tio (Huari) and altiplano folklore. Might as well demand restitution from the Patinos while you are at it Pinguin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 21:42
Don't play the ostrich, and return the silver.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darius of Parsa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 05:23
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Don't play the ostrich, and return the silver.
 
Did anyone congratulate you on 10,000 posts??? Well I did.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 07:31
Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

Careful pinguin, less some Bolivian may happen across this and starts demanding that your country hands back the Atacama region.


Nicely played, sir.

LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 09:24
Why on earth is a 3500 year old original exposed to the weather at all? You can easily make an identical replica and put the original someplace suited for preservation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 11:19
Originally posted by Darius of Parsa Darius of Parsa wrote:

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Don't play the ostrich, and return the silver.
 
Did anyone congratulate you on 10,000 posts??? Well I did.


Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 11:21
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

 
Shades of El Tio (Huari) and altiplano folklore. Might as well demand restitution from the Patinos while you are at it Pinguin.


Now that you, Spaniard, had money (at last; thanks to Franco), it wouldn't be a bad idea to return what you "borrowed" long time ago from the poorest country in South America, after the Guyanas.


Edited by pinguin - 12 Jan 2011 at 11:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 11:23
Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

Careful pinguin, less some Bolivian may happen across this and starts demanding that your country hands back the Atacama region.


Nah! Since Tiahuanaco times Bolivians have tried to get our lands. They never succeed.
With Bolivia, the greatest danger we have is that certain Bolivian provinces want to be admited in Chile Confused
Let's hope that when Spaniards return the silver they "borrowed" from Bolivia that country improves.


Edited by pinguin - 12 Jan 2011 at 11:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 12:16
What a sterling example of the principle that it is not quantity but quality which counts. On this thread alone little of substance produced 8 new feathers for the Pinguin's body weight but alas he still can not fly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 14:58
Don't play the galician. Return the silver!
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