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Guns in the US

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    Posted: 18 Jun 2018 at 23:28
I tend to think its gigo, garbage in, garbage out.
but I am not on Facebook or twitter, so I don't really know.
youtube is an interesting phenomenon, and so are forums,
at least to me.

Socrates talks about if you go to the market and get some food, if when you get home, you discover it is bad you can dump it out.  The same is not true for your mind.  If you come home with a bad idea, it is going to stick with you, even if you don't want it any more.  You can't throw it out, as if it is bad stew.  But, people are willing to take just about anything in mind.

obtw, I used to carry pocketknives when I was in elementary through college, big folding knives, switch blades, so forth, including to school.  I don't like the way they made me think.  So, I generally don't carry a knife these days, except a little pen knife in the car, to poke through the wrapper on boxes of cookies.  Never used a knife as a weapon, (except a folding knife on my fingers, whoops!), still don't like the way it makes me think.

I think that many countries that rely on the "Pax Americana," rely on the United States to have that capacity both in the terms of military power, and the psychology that goes with it.


Edited by franciscosan - 18 Jun 2018 at 23:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2018 at 03:22
I don't subscribe to any of the so-called social media formats.

If I want to communicate with someone, I use my phone or at least email.

I have seen some of the content of one or two, and all I saw was a load of drivel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2018 at 15:58
Quote What's Lüge!, isn't it a Winter Olympics sport?


haha, that's LIES! in German. German have better words for bad behavior

Quote As for the gun problem, I suppose a POTUS many years ago would have done something about it if he thought it would ever be a problem. Hindsight is a wonderful thing to have.


I don't know if you are following social media, if you were there is no chance that you would want your kids or grandkids to be subjected to it, I suggest social media is driving mass shootings.
Every school has its own online community boards and even as they are supposedly "monitored" I tell you kids are stabbing at each other through the medium.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2018 at 07:04
Matt Lauer, no, I had to Google him to find out who he is and what he is.

Quote It's all distortion including many so called facts about gun violence, crime rates and what's driving crime.

Old journalism saying, "Never let the facts stand in the way of a good story'" and in some cases, I agree with you here.

What's Lüge!, isn't it a Winter Olympics sport?

As for the gun problem, I suppose a POTUS many years ago would have done something about it if he thought it would ever be a problem. Hindsight is a wonderful thing to have.


Edited by toyomotor - 16 Jun 2018 at 07:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2018 at 06:12
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Guns? GUNS? We were talking about GUNS?

Yes but it should be noted that propaganda morphs into "Facts"  through media distortion. Examples in media mania, when relevant reveal dubious evidence, anonymous sources or pure fantasy. Or the shameless virtue signaling of Matt Lauer. Remember him?

It's all distortion including many so called facts about gun violence, crime rates and what's driving crime.

The conditions at schools have something to do with the shootings. We have Snark, humiliation by public media and an atmosphere where adult women actually are up for sex with 15 year old boys. This is an example of divisive media, if covered at all it's farcical. 
Only men, probably White Men are abusing power for personal gratification. Lüge!


Edited by Vanuatu - 15 Jun 2018 at 06:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 21:55
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:


Notice how many female teachers were outed this week for having sex with teen male students? 
I counted 3.
Won't be long before a well known woman turns out to be using people for sex. Just the real world is all.


Yes, this is about guns. But a quick note, female teachers being sex predators is a far worse phenomenon then the media realizes:

http://www.lawfirms.com/female-teacher-sex-crime-offenders-and-scandals.htmlList of Female Sex Predators

https://canadiancrc.com/FEMALE_TEACHER_SEX_OFFENDERS-SEXUAL_ASSAULT_Female_Sexual_Predators-RAPE_MALES.aspx:More here
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 10:42
Guns? GUNS? We were talking about GUNS?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 06:09
Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Why are you so obsessed by CNN?

Did you realise that there are many more US news outlets?Wink


Yes, lets overlook any good news and get back to CNN. I assume you are not interested in the black groups who are happy to be having a president pay attention. 

Of course I sample CNN talking heads. There are a couple of conservative viewpoints mostly the news is influenced by hollywood, social media and virtue signaling. I used to think MSNBC was the worst but CNN has taken the lead. MSNBC is still more ridiculous but CNN is actively supporting the RESIST MOVEMENT, which sounds like Bill Clinton in some recent interviews LOL. 

 


The Clinton News Network.
Righto- when they paid the bills! Now the Clintons are being shuffled off stage Bill Clinton in pretty hot water I guess but who cares. He's pretty out of touch, not convincing anyone that when HE did IT things were DIFFERENT.
I do agree that the "me too" thing is nonsense. Think of all the bad actors who'll never get their start without the casting couch!
Notice how many female teachers were outed this week for having sex with teen male students? 
I counted 3.
Won't be long before a well known woman turns out to be using people for sex. Just the real world is all.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 16:13
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Why are you so obsessed by CNN?

Did you realise that there are many more US news outlets?Wink


Yes, lets overlook any good news and get back to CNN. I assume you are not interested in the black groups who are happy to be having a president pay attention. 

Of course I sample CNN talking heads. There are a couple of conservative viewpoints mostly the news is influenced by hollywood, social media and virtue signaling. I used to think MSNBC was the worst but CNN has taken the lead. MSNBC is still more ridiculous but CNN is actively supporting the RESIST MOVEMENT, which sounds like Bill Clinton in some recent interviews LOL. 

 


The Clinton News Network.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 16:09
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:


This after playing footsy with the NRA recently.


By george! I think Trump is getting the hang of being a politician! Should we be scared or relieved. The answer lies within the eye of the beholder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 16:03
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

This was posted by Northman several years ago-just a bit of fun-not to be taken too seriously.

Quote <span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">Just for fun - and afterthought...  </span>Smile<br style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTpCUAK4ypA



You might have a laugh or two over this.


The problem is, this will be taken seriously, and most especially by those tired of the decades long one sided ridicule and mockery their beliefs are turned into on television shows.

Trump didn't appear out of a vacuum. And yet people are still perplexed how anyone could vote or him? It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure this out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 16:18
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Why are you so obsessed by CNN?

Did you realise that there are many more US news outlets?Wink

Yes, lets overlook any good news and get back to CNN. I assume you are not interested in the black groups who are happy to be having a president pay attention. 

Of course I sample CNN talking heads. There are a couple of conservative viewpoints mostly the news is influenced by hollywood, social media and virtue signaling. I used to think MSNBC was the worst but CNN has taken the lead. MSNBC is still more ridiculous but CNN is actively supporting the RESIST MOVEMENT, which sounds like Bill Clinton in some recent interviews LOL. 

 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 02:03
Why are you so obsessed by CNN?

Did you realise that there are many more US news outlets?Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 16:02
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote <span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">Now we have a different regime, that is more friendly to law enforcement.
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">Really? And how about the coloured population, are they more friendly?</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">And the proportion of Americans who have African antecedents is?</span>



Many BLM outlets have regrouped. They have been exposed with no response for the question "how are you being victimized?"

If BLM had actual objectives other than getting democrats elected, they would talk with Trump. Many groups representing the interests of African Americans have met with Trump and have lots of good things to say, look at employment rates it's the best US has done in 20 years.
You want to see a list of black voters/commitees who work with Trump? They won't tell you about it on CNN. They want to divide people by race, sex, religion and politics.



Edited by Vanuatu - 07 Jun 2018 at 16:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2018 at 03:54
1st statement, we have a different (a new) regime.
that regime ran on being friendly to law enforcement, border patrol, local sheriffs from Arizona who get pardoned. police officers.  In other words, law enforcement officers who have nothing to do with Trump malfeasance.  FBI not included.
that regime has been friendly to law enforcement, as they said they would.

We generally don't talk about "colored" population, unless we are waxing poetic like Jesse Jackson and his rainbow coalition.  Even then, different minorities have different levels of outrageous indignation points,  The best is to be a black lesbian woman or transgender.  (I, Rigoberta Menchu) They can speak with the greatest authority about how authentic is their outrage against, 'the man,' typified as dead white males.
Listening to them, you would think that most poverty in America is black and urban, but the truth is that most poverty in America is white and rural.  But the self-righteous indignation of the neoMarxists these days, has nothing to do with the working class, and a lot to do with gender and racial identity.  University radicals these days don't care anything about workers any more.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2018 at 01:43
Quote Now we have a different regime, that is more friendly to law enforcement.

Really? And how about the coloured population, are they more friendly?

And the proportion of Americans who have African antecedents is?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2018 at 00:37
"responsible" is not the word I would use, is he feeding the fire or taking away the oxygen for it?  and I am not certain that he is feeding the fire, because I don't have a detached perspective.  I am just wondering if my perception is accurate, that big shootings are more frequent in his first year?

The spotlight on Black Lives Matters, seems to have changed.  Are young blacks butting heads less with the police?  Or are we just not hearing about it as much?  I tend to think Eric Holder's investigations tended to add oxygen to those fires.  Now we have a different regime, that is more friendly to law enforcement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2018 at 15:11
fransicosan, I don't think any stats are available on how Trump is responsible for mass shootings. But you can hope!

It has become clear since a number of mass shooters have lived to talk. The latest shootings in Florida and Santa Fe reveal that the shootings were revenge for being ostracized and or bullied at school. While a kid may want to kill an abusive parent the conflicted emotional attachment makes it very likely that someone else will suffer for that abuse. Maybe a classmate that really made your life miserable.
Kids are not just being humiliated at school, it's all over social media and the level of rage in the shooter demands the most public, permanent answer. In Florida one young lady was shot 11 times by the shooter and witnesses said shooter lowered gun for some students to let them pass. Not so disorganized and random is it?
In my experience with a teen in school, overwhelmingly "SNARK" is the tone among teachers and students. They all think they are starring in their own personal reality show. All fun and games until real life consequences break into that school life fantasy where assholes are elevated after modeling behavior demostrated by the teachers and administration.

That seems very personal and not about shooting a bunch of people that you don't know (Caldrail).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2018 at 02:49
It's a bit rough to imply that in just one year in office, Trump can be held responsible in any way for the mass shootings.

No, it's more than that, it's bloody wrong!

Is it my imagination, or have the overwhelming number of mass shootings occurred in the southern states?

If that is so, what could the reason be?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2018 at 20:56
Has there been a difference in the number (frequency) and severity of shootings under Trump's watch?  If he can take credit for "saving Christmas"....

gun wackos, Florida, Virginia Tech, Columbine, Santa Fe Texas...........

Has there been a difference?  Or is it just a matter of perception?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2018 at 15:08
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

When Donald Trump was elected I wondered whether:

1) the wackos would be satisfied, having a bellicose leader.

2) the wackos would be encouraged and come out of the woodwork.  Perhaps because Trump's angry rhetoric would justify their rhetoric, and worse, their actions.

I think we can say that the latter has happened, that the wackos have been encouraged and come out of the woodwork.



Which Wakos? Academic? Street people? Hillary Clinton?
It's understandable that other cultures are shocked by the mass shootings US is also shocked and sickened. Multiple factors contributing to this problem including the level of hostility is increasing in no small part to the lack of leadership preceding Trump & now Trump.

Obama wasn't a calming influence unless you shared the same political ideology. He inflicted a similar filter on life that there is mostly no escape from, especially if you are already inclined to follow national and world events. That's why so many blank slates voted democrat in 2008.

Edited by Vanuatu - 28 May 2018 at 20:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2018 at 23:08
Yes, but mass shootings don't really start until, say, 20 years ago...?

My perception is that the mass shootings have increased in frequency and deadliness under the Trump presidency.  Now is my perception only that?  a perception?  or is the change real?  I am talking statistically.  Florida+Vegas+Santa Fe Texas+?

But, it is nice of you to not attribute everything bad to Trump....:)

People have been killing other people since, well, Cain.  I am sure that Australians sometimes kill one another, and if they do not use a firearm, then I imagine they use something else.  You may not like American gun ownership, but it is an Amendment in the bill of rights, and it is there as part of the checks and balances of our democracy.  God made man and woman and, Smith and Wesson made them equal.
Beer
When Americans go crazy, they shoot up the place and there are up to about 50 dead, when Europeans go crazy, the ovens get going, and 12 million? Jews and others go up in smoke.  I prefer the American way of going crazy.  I don't like it, but I think it would be quite difficult for a 'totalitarian' regime to arise in the US, because of gun ownership.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2018 at 07:12
You're way OTT on this! Americans have been killing each other with firearms for generations.

Every president since Federation has been guilty of not doing anything (or enough) about Gun Control.

Granted, in the early years they were needed for self defence, but for the past 100 years or more, that need has gone, and has been transmogrified into what you have today, a situation where neighbours are arming themselves against potential threats, real or imagined, from neighbours, as well as from criminals.

This is not Trump's doing. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2018 at 06:58
Why not?  The President sets the tone for the nation, what kind of tone has he set?  Is he the kind that would talk someone off a bridge or urge them to jump (or get up and push them off)?  Does he promote irrational rage, or is he calming influence?  He takes credit for a lot of things that really have nothing to do with him, for example he "saved Christmas."  No, I think one can see an upswing in shootings during his first year and a half, I think that is more than just a correlation.  Not saying thats all that is happening, but does he help the situation or does he hurt it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2018 at 02:09
You can't blame Donald Trump for this.

It's part of the American psyche, and has been for generations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2018 at 04:31
When Donald Trump was elected I wondered whether:

1) the wackos would be satisfied, having a bellicose leader.

2) the wackos would be encouraged and come out of the woodwork.  Perhaps because Trump's angry rhetoric would justify their rhetoric, and worse, their actions.

I think we can say that the latter has happened, that the wackos have been encouraged and come out of the woodwork.


Edited by franciscosan - 20 May 2018 at 04:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2018 at 09:37
I just heard that today's school mass shooting is the 28th this year.

Is that correct?

And I saw Trump on a TV news clip saying that "it's been going on too long, decades now".

This after playing footsy with the NRA recently.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2018 at 22:51
Isn't there a "Springfield Rifle"??  Any relation to the armory, or is that to Smith & Wesson?

God made man and woman, and Smith & Wesson made them equal.  (Isn't that the saying?).

Before the American Civil War, John Brown tried to get a slave revolt going, and raided the Harper's Ferry Armory, but soon got crushed.  His attempt however, lead to a concern about slave revolts in the South, and thus also lead to the stockpiling of munitions in armories throughout the South.  In other words, John Brown's little stunt may have made the overthrow of slavery harder in the long run because the South was better armed at the start of the war than it would have been otherwise.


Edited by franciscosan - 26 Apr 2018 at 00:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Windemere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2018 at 17:42

George Washington chose the little town of Springfield as the site for the Springfield Armory (arsenal) because it was located on the Connecticut River above the waterfall in Enfield, Connecticut, which meant that it was protected from British warships. Coming in from the Atlantic, up the Connecticut River, they couldn't navigate past the waterfall. The Armory site was also located on high ground, which made it easier to defend. Being the site of the Armory eventually caused Springfield to grow into the largest town in Western Massachusetts.

The Springfield Armory remained in operation until 1968. (My mother was actually employed there as a clerk in the Ordnance Department.) Throughout its existence, it was the primary site for U.S. government firearms manufacture. After it closed down in 1968, the old historic colonial part became a museum which is run by the National Park Service, and the factory part became Springfield Technical Community College (where I took many Continuing Ed courses).
 
Incidentally, Springfield, Mass. is also the site of Smith & Wesson corporation, one of today's largest firearms manufacturers.


Edited by Windemere - 25 Apr 2018 at 17:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2018 at 17:12
Clear as a bell. So true for Europe also, a modern armed citizenry hasn't been part of the gestalt and so it seems suicidal.
During the Revolution Spain and France provided weapons and money, troops and great leaders who wanted to stomp Britain good. We have a statue to Lafayette where we live and I always remember thinking that Europe was a partner to the Continental Army in in creating this wild west, FREEDOM that just hadn't existed before. 
Trump must have been pulled aside when he mocked the congress for being afraid of the NRA, their tentacles go back to the very beginning. How does all that influence just unravel? 


Forced to rely on foreign weapons during the war, President George Washington wanted to ensure that the new republic had its own arms industry. Inspired by European practice, he and his successors built public arsenals for the production of firearms in Springfield and Harper’s Ferry. They also began doling out lucrative arms contracts to private manufacturers such as Simeon North, the first official U.S. pistol maker, and Eli Whitney, inventor of the cotton gin.

The government provided crucial startup funds, steady contracts, tariffs against foreign manufactures, robust patent laws, and patterns, tools and know-how from federal arsenals.

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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