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Two Strategies of the Human Male

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    Posted: 10 Sep 2015 at 10:29
True, but its not clear that they will survive in the wild.  What has happened when bonobos have lived with humans?  You can say, "don't do it," but I just want to know if it has been done and what was the result?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2015 at 23:16
Primates are not domesticated aminals - they have all their wild instincts and will sooner or later act as any other member of their species. Keeping such animals as pets isn't a good idea and most people aren't equipped of skilled to handle them properly.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2015 at 15:51
Can bonobos be socialized to humans?
How endangered are bonobos?


How about Orangutans?  (All I know is, "right turn, Clyde")
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2015 at 00:02
Quote Remember the story in the news a few years back about a family who adopted a chimp and then realized they couldn't keep him? They take him to a reserve. On his birthday tee hee, they bring him a cake and take him out of the enclosure.

A rule of thumb is that you don't keep chimps as pets after five years of age. They become very aggressive, very physically powerful, and very alert to social standing which they will always contest if the opportunity arises.


Edited by caldrail - 07 Jul 2015 at 00:03
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2015 at 10:44
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

What happens when mating stops being the motivation for attracting a mate? We are looking for.. -what? intimacy? Someone to ritualize our death maybe.

company, conversation, both which are a form of intimacy in a wide sense of  the definition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2015 at 01:22
Some memory loss is by design. Our brains sift through the information we receive, discard a great deal of it uncobnciously, and remember only those aspects deemed significant. As it happens human beings don't have superior brain power in some respects. Our ability to take in information at a glance is quite limited compared to some mammals, and our IQ rating is only available because we have a large brain relative to our body size, thus we're making use of the extra space our anatomy doesn't need (don't get carried away with that old saying "we only use an eighth of our brain". Rubbish. Without that extra space we'd still consider gathering nuts and berries as a serious career choice). Note that patients with brain damage find that quite often the brain re-orders information in the space remaining. Sometimes it manages quite successfully given time, sometimes it doesn't.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 23:50
What happens when mating stops being the motivation for attracting a mate? We are looking for.. -what? intimacy? Someone to ritualize our death maybe.
“The United Nations is the biggest joke of this century. If each one is trying to assert his own rights there, how can there be a United Nations?” UG Krishnamurti
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 16:22
Beauty can be intimidating, and so to make it a matter of an "economic" exchange, makes it less so.
Another answer is to go for less "conventional" beauty, and dare I say it, "personality."  They appreciate the attention more, or at least that is the theory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 01:15
Originally posted by caldrail caldrail wrote:

As social animals we compete for the females favours, and even today, women have a strange prediliction toward the most violent criminals simply because they instinctively regard his behaviour and capabilities as superior to others. This is complicated by various factors such as fashion (as I well know, considering how much my local librarians hate my military surplus trousers), and things like wealth, smell, manners, or whatever. Whereas the majority of women see sports cars bascially 'penis extenders', preferring 'fun' vehicles,


And have you noticed that men are often attracted to women for whom material possessions are the measure of his value exclusively? Women in the public spotlight are all starting to look alike. With enhanced big lips, breasts, bottoms and no shyness about the fact that they are looking for financial benefits as a trade off for their "look."

Edited by Vanuatu - 03 Jul 2015 at 01:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 01:07
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I wonder if Herzog gave credit to the finders.


Herzog credits Jean Marie Chauvet in his documentary. The world knows for certain, its like when a sibling assumes ownership of one of your Christmas gifts because you are not in the recommended age group.

Chauvet is a UNESCO world Heritage site since June 2014.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2015 at 20:47
Originally posted by Viewpoint Viewpoint wrote:

Huge amounts have been written about human male behaviour, but I don't think anyone has believed that there are two completely distinct strategies for reproductive success arising at different times in prehistory. First, strategy a: Aggression, bash your opponent senseless and grab the female, extremely ancient, predating mammals. Secondly, strategy b: Brotherhood, team up with your friend to bash your opponent and/or share the female with him, if necessary holding her down, much more recent,dating from advanced primates. Not very politically correct I'll grant you, but it does explain a lot about the behaviour of the human male! Most men seem to be pre-programmed with a mixture of the two. Of course such behaviours are moderated by super-ego based altruism and the degree of female receptiveness, but you have to admit that guys tend to fall predominantly into one group or the other.


Our behaviour is essentially primeval dressed up in cultural ritual. As social animals we compete for the females favours, and even today, women have a strange prediliction toward the most violent criminals simply because they instinctively regard his behaviour and capabilities as superior to others. This is complicated by various factors such as fashion (as I well know, considering how much my local librarians hate my military surplus trousers), and things like wealth, smell, manners, or whatever. Whereas the majority of women see sports cars bascially 'penis extenders', preferring 'fun' vehicles, I did ince get a strong reaction from a lady who spotted me in mine. Not because she liked the car - it was a suprise for her to see me in that context and the car suggested wealth, confidence, aggression, social status, and so forth, which worked for me once. On the other hand, the owner of a replica Ferrari locally still only attracts debate about the veracity of his car and not his pseronal attractiveness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2015 at 16:34
France uses its intelligence service to engage in industrial espionage, spy on foreign companies, for the benefit of their own companies.

I wonder if Herzog gave credit to the finders.  I think that the world probably knows that they found it.  France has some weird hangups on cultural property laws, for example artists have certain rights in preserving the integrity of their work, even after it is sold.  I wonder if those peculiar cultural property laws have any effect on the matter.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2015 at 14:18
A few days ago there was a story about the NSA spying on the past 3 French presidents. US officially stating that it is not currently targeting Hollande, so not denying past activities. Looks like the French weren't using the Get Smart phone because its not very chic.
Some speculation about this being a leak_from_ Wikileaks;) probably the same source that spilled the news about NSA/Merkel phone taps.

France officially does not recognize Christian Hillaire, Eliette Brunel-Descamps and Jean Marie Chauvet as having made the discovery at Caverne du Pont d'Arc in 1994. Even though the caves are named for Chauvet. France would claim the royalties of the replica created to preserve the original.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/04/10/world/europe/ap-eu-france-prehistoric-paintings.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2015 at 12:13
Learn philosophy, they can hear every word and still not understand what the heck you are talking about;)
Americans, in spying, tend to be visual (U-2 planes, satellites), Russians tend to be audial (bugs built into American embassy).  Russians are aggravated about the visual spying, and Americans are aggravated by Russian audial spying, the sense of violation for each one is not proportionate to the damage done.  McLuhan talks about this somewhere.  
Russians tend to be a very philosophical people, going from one extreme (communism) to another ((crony) capitalism of the oligarchs).  This is not necessarily a good characteristic.  However, Russian literary criticism was traditionally a way to get a message past the censors.  One could write ostensibly about Pushkin or Tolstoy and really be talking about something more politically provocative.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2015 at 05:20
The fun is being squeezed out of everything. The tyranny extends to sharks as drones watchdog the shores. No more than a mouthful of tourist for you fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2015 at 19:42
I like physical copies, someday Big Brother will want to count your every key stroke, look over your shoulder to see what media you consume.  Physical copies of books, magazines, movies, etc. make it more difficult for the bastards to try to social engineer everything.  Of course, it adds up to a lot of clutter, but there is a cost to everything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2015 at 00:59
I think the memory loss is by design. I agree there are no seconds if one fully remembers the struggle of the first.

Poor Smithsonian trying to stay alive at the grocery store. It's still high quality work but using paper that is really no longer needed seems kind of prehistoric.

Everyone loves the bulk of a book, especially the author. Amazon is now going to pay its Kindle authors by the pages read. It will actually allow for a swipe and a set amount of time for the reader and then the author gets about $1.38.

Edited by Vanuatu - 27 Jun 2015 at 01:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2015 at 14:40
I have heard that having children can affect one's memory.

As in, "oh honey, let's have another child, our first one was so easy."

For some reason, the long nights and projectile vomiting gets forgotten.
<grin>

The Smithsonian was the magazine with the article I read, I just didn't read at home (I have subscription)
I read it at the grocery store, and _because_ I read it at the grocery store, I assumed it was not the 
Smithsonian.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2015 at 01:22
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I looked at the new Scientific American, and saw the article (or was it Discover?) on the chin which is a uniquely human trait, and may be there because the face is getting smaller.  So, Vanuatu, I finally know what you are talking about with the face getting smaller:)


Sorry, I'm sure I meant to elaborate but some distraction -kids, pets or neighbors pushed it out of my head.
What I was referring to:

"Why do Humans have Chins?"
The author is looking at the reasons why the faces of hominids developed chins and smaller faces.

"...the chin was a byproduct of a shrinking face. Indeed, as the first modern humans evolved, late in the Pleistocene, the face decreased in size and tilted inward, pushing part of the lower jaw outward. “If natural selection is looking to alter one part somewhere, it incidentally affects the shape of another component somewhere else,” Pampush says.

"Which leads to another question: What prompted the hominid face to shrink? Reduced aggression and lower testosterone, proposes Robert Franciscus, a paleoanthropologist at the University of Iowa. Those changes, in turn, were associated with more cooperation and more social tolerance, but lowered hormone levels would have also led to a smaller face. Fossil evidence supports that trend."

Kind of creepy when you think of the description of "The Greys" given by those claiming UFO /Alien abduction.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-do-humans-have-chins-1-180955299/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2015 at 17:18
I looked at the new Scientific American, and saw the article (or was it Discover?) on the chin which is a uniquely human trait, and may be there because the face is getting smaller.  So, Vanuatu, I finally know what you are talking about with the face getting smaller:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2015 at 15:36
There is also the Denisovian tooth.

I am sure I have that Smithsonian issue, somewhere.

I think people who stick forks in light sockets, deserve to be shocked, it is nothing personal.  It is just causality.  If you do X, Y happens. Unfortunately, when it happens with an animal attack, generally the animal gets "put down."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2015 at 12:28

Australopithecus or Parantropus Boisei Robustus and Gracile (After Leaky's benefactor Charles Boisei).

Robust and Gracile are from the Lucy family about (2.1 MYA to 1.2MYA).
Except that they have slight difference in build.

Mary Leaky at Olduvai Gorge Tanzania 1959, found "Nutcracker Man" (and others)he was of the Robust variety, jaw muscles like a gorilla but they are around only four foot six with brain capacity slightly more than a Chimp.

They did have a pelvis made for walking and the legs for it too. The Gracile variety in other fossils with same dating and similar body characteristics have a smaller face, canines are smaller.

Molars and analysis show that they ate more grass than others in similar classifications. I think this animal is like a Renaissance Ape.

Remember the story in the news a few years back about a family who adopted a chimp and then realized they couldn't keep him? They take him to a reserve. On his birthday tee hee, they bring him a cake and take him out of the enclosure.
Well Junior is not the little prince at the big house. So the dominant male orchestrates an attack on the man and woman, going directly to the latch and expertly letting himself out. I'd heard about this before. A chimp knows how to get out but just doesn't let on about it. So this couple are horribly mauled and mutilated.

My point is this smart little Gracile is retaining more of the gorilla side of Pan evolution, using scrapers, wooden tools and maybe smaller teeth indicates less aggression more thinking. I'm sorry the people were hurt but my big take away from that was, smart chimp.

Java man is really nothing more than a couple of leg bones in reality. But he dates to 700,000 BCE, that's a couple hundred thousand years after Homo Erectus is walking full stride, using tools and right before fossil evidence of Handy Man.

I think this is another Renaissance character. He's been away from Africa for a long time, anthropologist disagree whether he would have body hair. He's also sharing Java with Floresiensis the "Hobbit" and miniature elephants. Now that just seems like a dream world doesn't it?

There's an article in June Smithsonian "Are our faces getting smaller?"
Links have great pictures and more details about Dubois the Dutch scientist who found Java. He and Raymond Dart were unappreciated. Those Piltdown Buggers got all the glory for a lie.

http://anthropology.ua.edu/bindon/ant270/lectures/hominids2.pdfhttps://answersingenesis.org/human-evolution/hominids/who-was-java-man/http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/boisei

Edited by Vanuatu - 09 Jun 2015 at 14:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2015 at 11:11
I don't know what Boise Gracile means, something to do with potatoes? ;)
I don't know about Java man, other than the name.
But tell me, if you don't mind.
Man is one of the few animals who can run long distances, dogs and horses (and maybe reindeer??) are the others, domesticated by man. 
 Some believe that the domestication of the dog was the significant difference between early homo sapiens and neanderthal man.  Neanderthal was not stupid, it _perhaps_ was just that they couldn't compete with the dog-man combo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2015 at 14:23
Yes! The lice. If a hominid is walking tall, long distance there is more surface area to disperse heat, less reason to be there mouth agape, smaller muscles in the cheek allow for full closure of the mouth. Less hair translates into more efficient cooling for the biped.
I think its Boise Gracile, Java Man? What say you?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2015 at 12:30
Reproductions.  It still would be cool to see them.

You didn't ask me about lice:(

There are two species of lice for humans, head lice, and lice for pubic hair.  They can genetically trace these back to when they were the same species.  At that time, humans had (significant) body hair, then we lost the body hair and the two types of lice diverged.  I don't know when that was, but they do have an estimated time bp.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2015 at 04:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2015 at 01:36
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y0guHHDN5Q

"Cave of Forgotten Dreams" No subtitles.

[Quote=franciscosan]Today, you have children in kindergarten trace their hands because that is something they can do. Likewise, I suspect that a tribe traces handprints of children and other individuals because that is something in which they can participate. In this scenario, it would not be the artists tracing their hands, but rather it would be those in the tribe who were _not_ artists, so that they too would not be "silent" in the stories on the walls.
I am _not_ saying that this above scenario is correct, what I am saying is that it is an alternative to the 'signature' interpretation that is on a quick glance, plausible. In some ways it is the opposite to the 'signature' interpretation and so if adopted, it would change the dynamic between the art, the artists and the community.[/Qoute]

Right there are several interesting ideas about hand prints. In addition to the signature theory, this could have been the artist or tribe member putting himself at the scene of the events.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2015 at 15:56
Today, you have children in kindergarten trace their hands because that is something they can do.  Likewise, I suspect that a tribe traces handprints of children and other individuals because that is something in which they can participate.  In this scenario, it would not be the artists tracing their hands, but rather it would be those in the tribe who were _not_ artists, so that they too would not be "silent" in the stories on the walls.
I am _not_ saying that this above scenario is correct, what I am saying is that it is an alternative to the 'signature' interpretation that is on a quick glance, plausible.  In some ways it is the opposite to the 'signature' interpretation and so if adopted, it would change the dynamic between the art, the artists and the community.

There seems to be some use of locations with echoes in the cave sites.  Or so I have heard.  (not related to that), years ago my mother and father visited Lascaux and other sites.  Lascaux is generally closed off, but they open it for like a week once a year, to allow (scheduled) visitors.  The humidity is a great concern there, particularly people's breath.  So in general it is closed off, except for tours for like one week a year.

I still haven't seen Werner Herzog's movie, that he did on a prehistoric cave, the name right now escapes me.
Ask me about lice<grin>.


Edited by franciscosan - 06 Jun 2015 at 15:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2015 at 00:13
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I don't know what they're talking about when they say that there is not much pre-historic art in Africa, from what I understand, there is a lot of stuff up in and north of the Sahara. Of course maybe they think that it is from the wrong time period.


Agree, there are thousands of examples of art in Africa, caves and pictoographs.
In a documentary about Australia, the narrator explained that the hand marks are probably signatures also. But they envisage men doing these and the tall eerie human like drawings appear to male.

However other sources, in looking at European cave art have identified children as also contributing to the art since many of the hands prints are small. It also makes sense that the young would have most easily grasped emerging technology and at some point advanced the work.

In Lascaux the animals are painted with the use of wall contours to create dimensional effects. They also believe that staging was used to create the murals overhead, add a fire and shadows at night maybe a hallucinogen, and you have some pretty intense cultural bonding.   



Edited by Vanuatu - 06 Jun 2015 at 08:56
“The United Nations is the biggest joke of this century. If each one is trying to assert his own rights there, how can there be a United Nations?” UG Krishnamurti
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2015 at 14:17
There is a New Yorker cartoon that I have heard of, two cavemen are talking to each other in the forest, one says to the other: "I don't get it, we only eat organic, everything is natural, and we only live until we're thirty."  
I am repeating what I have heard from friends, but if you know the general idea, you might be able to trace down an article on the topic.  I can't tell you how they would know, but if you can find an article on the subject, it should tell you how they reached the conclusion that most of handprints are female.  Probably something to do with biometrics.
The point I'm making with the above joke is that for any such group, there would be a low median age of mid, late teens.  But I don't think that they could tell the age of the individual from the tracings.  The supposition is that the handprints are like signatures.  On the other hand, I could see handprints as a way of 'representing' members that are not 'represented' by drawings.
I don't know what they're talking about when they say that there is not much pre-historic art in Africa, from what I understand, there is a lot of stuff up in and north of the Sahara.  Of course maybe they think that it is from the wrong time period.
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