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NFL Flag and Anthem Contro

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    Posted: 08 Oct 2017 at 13:48
Been raging again. Your thoughts and or comments.

Personally I support the 1st amendment with all my being. Yet I also remain personally offended.

I don't agree that by not standing; that disrespect to the men and women and allies who fought with and or for that flag is not being displayed. ;

It is afaic.
Especially to the dead.

That counter appears to only be a convenient sop thrown out to by counter race baiters.

So the question is: disrespectful or not by players and staff.
The counter reaction has been fierce and just this last week in fear of losing fans TV ratings, gear sales and ticket sales. The owners saw the handwriting and modified their previous behavior.

Btw, NFL rules require it but are not being enforced in total.

I don't have much sympathy for the original instigator who wore socks depicting PO's as pigs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dark Warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2017 at 19:15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2017 at 23:53
Originally posted by Dark Warrior Dark Warrior wrote:

Been raging again. Your thoughts and or comments.

Personally I support the 1st amendment with all my being. Yet I also remain personally offended.

I don't agree that by not standing; that disrespect to the men and women and allies who fought with and or for that flag is not being displayed. ;

It is afaic.
Especially to the dead.

That counter appears to only be a convenient sop thrown out to by counter race baiters.

So the question is: disrespectful or not by players and staff.
The counter reaction has been fierce and just this last week in fear of losing fans TV ratings, gear sales and ticket sales. The owners saw the handwriting and modified their previous behavior.

Btw, NFL rules require it but are not being enforced in total.

I don't have much sympathy for the original instigator who wore socks depicting PO's as pigs.


It's ironic- kneeling or "taking a knee" has been a symbol of subservience for many centuries.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dark Warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 09:55
''It's ironic- kneeling or "taking a knee" has been a symbol of subservience for many centuries.''

Quite right....but not in America And certainly not since 1776...with one notable exception. And that was for GOD not the flag.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 13:17
Originally posted by Dark Warrior Dark Warrior wrote:

Quote ''It's ironic- kneeling or "taking a knee" has been a symbol of subservience for many centuries.''


Quite right....but not in America And certainly not since 1776...with one notable exception. And that was for GOD not the flag.

Can't argue with that. But, internationally, it (kneeling) may not have had the impact that it obviously has in the States. I reckon in some countries it would have been misunderstood.

In the past, the Black Power single fist salute has said it all-and is world recognised as the symbol of black solidarity and protest.

I don't oppose the Black Lives Matter movement, and similar organisations, but I think that, in this case, they may not have won many supporters.


I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dark Warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 14:23
I support their right to protest as well...but I don't have to support or approve of the methodology.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 16:37
Originally posted by Dark Warrior Dark Warrior wrote:

I support their right to protest as well...but I don't have to support or approve of the methodology.

AGAIN, we agree.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 17:53
I don't support Black Lives Matter, I don't think MLK would have either. Can't say you want equality by isolating yourself based on the most obvious thing about a person, their appearance, skin tone.

Anywhere you go now it's obvious if you are in a place where your own life matters. Nothing like forcing people apart; a new civil war unless one is willing to be a "white ally" and "punch a nazi"

Take a knee, take a boat back to the parts of world that rank highest on the corruption index. If a person descended from slaves ended up in America second millennium, they could have done a lot worse in the Life Lottery. NFL players are living well and have their choice of platforms to FIST the planet. Can't they just spill on social media like everyone else?

The tax funded stadiums and reimbursements to the NFL do, as stated previously, require that they follow their own rules.
If 9/11 cannot be commemorated or unauthorized pink for breast cancer remembrance is refused than no pigs or protests either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dark Warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 19:34
dunno..anout the MLK...he be gone. But ill tell true...that BLM, imo, is indeed more divisve than productive. I can concur.

As far Antifa...they a fricking joke. Anti fascist means, in this case, anarchists in disguise. Nothing more. You notice you don't see a hell of a lot them fools running around in places other than those that are already bastions of the leftist. ie. academia.

And they even got them idiots fooled.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2017 at 00:10
One does not hear about 'back to Africa' very often, anymore.  Although there were some prominent black activists that did go back (W.E.B. Dubois to Ghana comes to mind).

Americans expect Football to be entertainment, an escape from problems, not a matter of having them thrust in their face.  Football players are paid fairly well (fairly well, there are some enduring health problems), as entertainers.  If the entertainment value is less, are the football players going to make less?  I expect not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 13:48
"Everyone one should stand" - Roger Goodell
And Mike Pence walked out on Colts /49ers game. Good on ya 
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dark Warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 18:46
That's chicken sh*t....everyone 'MUST' stand. Until then boycot let him lose his job and the NFL the revenue. Those who kneel and disrespect the dead remain punks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 02:59
I can't get excited if some athlete doesn't stand.  What is it called? a dog whistle?  Something which Trump followers can get worked up about, instead of serious issues?  Of course, I can't get excited about football either, so that is partially why I can't get excited about someone not standing.  I feel that the threat of concussions looming over the sport, will eventually mean its demise, or at least downgrade, degrade it.  Considering how teams have used threats of leaving to blackmail cities into new stadiums and more favorable, lucrative contracts whether the city can really afford it or not, that leaves a sour taste in my mouth.  And then there is all the off field antics that team members seem to get caught up in.  Failing to stand is not a matter of principle, it is a matter of ego.  To me it is just another straw on the camel's back.  A pox on their house, I was my hands of them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 13:58
Sounds about right, the brand has lost it's shine. I do get pretty mift about the NFL players who don't stand, I mean they live here that is a statement itself.  Even worse to 'take a knee' in England. 

They don't know the meaning of honor because they don't see how much they personally benefit from those deaths so long ago. Very shallow group.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 19:57
Quote Even worse to 'take a knee' in England.

Why?

If people are prepared to carry on a centuries old tradition of "taking a knee" or kneeling in front of their sovereign, so be it.

But in the UK, the only time that happens is one is being bestowed with a regal honour, such as a Knighthood or a Peerage. The Queen could hardly say, "Arise Sir Knight" if the bloke was already standing now could she.

On meeting Her Majesty, the custom is for men to bow their head and for women to curtsey. Good manners.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 21:32
United States does not recognize knighthood, or peerage.  That is part of why we got rid of the British.  If you want to interpret the NFL as modern day aristocracy, that has its problems for our culture.  They may be treated that way when the go to a steakhouse or a strip club, but really part of the appeal of football is to the everyman.

There is some story about the first Olympics in Britain, where all the parties passing the grandstand with the royal family, dipped their flag when parading by.  The only thing is in the American delegation, there were some Irish(-Americans) who promised the flag carrier that if he dipped the flag to the royal family, they would give him the beating of his life.  So that is how America started the tradition of not bowing the flag to the rulers of whomever was putting on the games.  Or at least that is the story I've heard, and I'll stick to it!  
(I would love for someone to check on the story, and find out better specifics, I am not good at looking stuff up)

So maybe we should go back to the tradition of angry Irish policemen (I think that is what they were in regular life) promising whomever bows a thorough beating.  Who knows, the fans might prefer it.

The Queen is a little old lady, and little old ladies should be humored on many things, in general I try to leave titles out, except for academic/medical and military.  I talk of Francis of Assisi, Isaac Newton.


Edited by franciscosan - 12 Oct 2017 at 21:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 01:48
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

United States does not recognize knighthood, or peerage.  That is part of why we got rid of the British.  If you want to interpret the NFL as modern day aristocracy, that has its problems for our culture.  They may be treated that way when the go to a steakhouse or a strip club, but really part of the appeal of football is to the everyman.

There is some story about the first Olympics in Britain, where all the parties passing the grandstand with the royal family, dipped their flag when parading by.  The only thing is in the American delegation, there were some Irish(-Americans) who promised the flag carrier that if he dipped the flag to the royal family, they would give him the beating of his life.  So that is how America started the tradition of not bowing the flag to the rulers of whomever was putting on the games.  Or at least that is the story I've heard, and I'll stick to it!  
(I would love for someone to check on the story, and find out better specifics, I am not good at looking stuff up)

So maybe we should go back to the tradition of angry Irish policemen (I think that is what they were in regular life) promising whomever bows a thorough beating.  Who knows, the fans might prefer it.

The Queen is a little old lady, and little old ladies should be humored on many things, in general I try to leave titles out, except for academic/medical and military.  I talk of Francis of Assisi, Isaac Newton.

 
Quote United States does not recognize knighthood, or peerage.


1. Funny thing that, many American citizens have purchased Baronetcies and other titles in the UK.

Quote The Queen is a little old lady, and little old ladies should be humored on many things, in general I try to leave titles out, except for academic/medical and military.

2. We much prefer to have our Queen as Head of State to your Presidents. At least we can say that she's "squeaky clean". Never one hint of scandal involving Her Majesty.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 15:52

Do you think it's funny suggesting that the NFL would kneel for the Q? Tongue
I do. 
Obama smeared the Brits, big league. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 23:47
True, Barack Obama has a bit of a grudge for how his grandfather was treated by the British in Kenya, on the other hand, his grandfather was a rebel in a low intensity conflict.  Trump is not the only one who can hold a grudge.  Obama sent the bust of Churchill back.

If the NFL were kneeling for the Queen, I would have a little more respect for them, although it would be very strange.  Americans don't understand British class structure, and British don't understand America's fascination with firearms.  Of course, if it wasn't for firearms, we might still be British.  I don't think being British is a bad thing, for Brits that is.  There was an actress on Fresh Aire interview show who said something like, 'you don't understand, I am not a citizen in Britain, I am a subject of the Queen.'  She wasn't explaining it as a good thing, just a basic difference between English and American.

Just because some Anglophile in the US purchases a peerage does not mean that legally the US recognizes them any differently than before.  We don't hold it against them either, not unless they claim to be the "duck of death."  (Clint Eastwood's 'Unforgiven' reference)


Edited by franciscosan - 13 Oct 2017 at 23:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 00:59
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:


Do you think it's funny suggesting that the NFL would kneel for the Q? Tongue
I do. 
Obama smeared the Brits, big league. 

No, you misundertand what I wrote. One only kneels in front of Her Majesty when being knighted or having some other regal title bestowed upon them. (Not a likely scenario for NFL members).

What Obama did or did not do is irrelevant.

I note that in the past, people actually stood to attention when the National Anthem was played, and removed their headgear. These days, in Australia anyway, most iff not all of the people stand, but removal of headgear doesn't seem to occur to them.


I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 01:06
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

True, Barack Obama has a bit of a grudge for how his grandfather was treated by the British in Kenya, on the other hand, his grandfather was a rebel in a low intensity conflict.  Trump is not the only one who can hold a grudge.  Obama sent the bust of Churchill back.

If the NFL were kneeling for the Queen, I would have a little more respect for them, although it would be very strange.  Americans don't understand British class structure, and British don't understand America's fascination with firearms.  Of course, if it wasn't for firearms, we might still be British.  I don't think being British is a bad thing, for Brits that is.  There was an actress on Fresh Aire interview show who said something like, 'you don't understand, I am not a citizen in Britain, I am a subject of the Queen.'  She wasn't explaining it as a good thing, just a basic difference between English and American.

Just because some Anglophile in the US purchases a peerage does not mean that legally the US recognizes them any differently than before.  We don't hold it against them either, not unless they claim to be the "duck of death."  (Clint Eastwood's 'Unforgiven' reference)

I agree with you. It's quite obvious from the top down that Americans don't understand the British class system or the peerage system.

To me, being a subject of Her Majesty is somewhat of an honour, and I wouldn't like to see that change.

I agree with your last statement, except for the fact that I think Her Majesty is still regarded with some reverence by some Americans.

(As a side note, if/when your Presient visits the UK on an official visit in the near future-he won't be staying at Buckingham Palace or with the Prime Minister. He's a bit too contraversial for the apolitical royalty.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 01:07
toyomotor, I think you don't understand, it would be funny if the NFL was honoring the Queen (which they're not), esp since Obama dissed the Brits.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 01:24
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

toyomotor, I think you don't understand, it would be funny if the NFL was honoring the Queen (which they're not), esp since Obama dissed the Brits.

You have a strange sense of humour.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 01:26
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote Even worse to 'take a knee' in England.

Why?

If people are prepared to carry on a centuries old tradition of "taking a knee" or kneeling in front of their sovereign, so be it.
The Queen is not the sovereign of NFL players. Therefore it would be funny if a very naive person thought the NFL players were kneeling for the Queen.

Quote But in the UK, the only time that happens is one is being bestowed with a regal honour, such as a Knighthood or a Peerage. The Queen could hardly say, "Arise Sir Knight" if the bloke was already standing now could she.

On meeting Her Majesty, the custom is for men to bow their head and for women to curtsey. Good manners.
NFL was not showing good manners. Especially since the Obamas stiff armed the Monarchy and made Brits the but of all their ethnic, racists jokes. Ouch

Who can forget when President George W. Bush took Abdullah by the hand like a couple of dating teenagers as he gave the Saudi king a tour of his ranch?

Though this is somewhat shocking to Americans, it is a culturally acceptable tradition in the Middle East.

But for an American government official to bow down in obeisance to a foreign royal is an entirely different matter. And it is astonishing for an American president to do so.

Which is why nobody was particularly shocked when President Obama didn’t bow before Queen Elizabeth of England. We really didn’t expect him to. Americans are not subject to British royalty and therefore bowing before British royalty would be an insult to American sovereignty.

Your average American tourist would be too proud of his country and too independent to bow himself low before the British crown.

American officials do not bow themselves low or curtsy before a foreign monarch because such a gesture symbolizes recognition of that foreign monarch’s authority and power over the government they represent.

When the president met with Queen Elizabeth, Obama scandalized British royal protocol by taking both her hands and giving them a hearty shake. British protocol, (a subject in which we assume the Obamas were instructed) forbids one from taking the Queen’s proffered hand, instead expecting one to simply brush the royal digits and withdraw.

OK, so Obama practically yanked both her arms off. So what? We’re Americans. She’s queen of England, not queen of America.

Despite the White House denials, President Obama offered King Abdullah a deep, subservient bow of the kind offered by a subject before his king. I don’t think I am reading too much into this. Whatever President Obama thinks Abdullah deserves in the way of subservient fealty, we Americans believe it lowers our sovereign prestige.


Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2009/04/94521/#JlbrAAfbAw0sAO2p.99




Edited by Vanuatu - 14 Oct 2017 at 01:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dark Warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 16:10
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote <span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">Even worse to 'take a knee' in England.
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">Why?</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">If people are prepared to carry on a centuries old tradition of "taking a knee" or kneeling in front of their sovereign, so be it.
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">The Queen is not the sovereign of NFL players. Therefore it would be funny if a very naive person thought the NFL players were kneeling for the Queen.</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
Quote But in the UK, the only time that happens is one is being bestowed with a regal honour, such as a Knighthood or a Peerage. The Queen could hardly say, "Arise Sir Knight" if the bloke was already standing now could she.</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">On meeting Her Majesty, the custom is for men to bow their head and for women to curtsey. Good manners.</span>

NFL was not showing good manners. Especially since the Obamas stiff armed the Monarchy and made Brits the but of all their ethnic, racists jokes. Ouch
<p style="margin: 15px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: line; : transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;">Who can forget when President George W. Bush took Abdullah by the hand like a couple of dating teenagers as he gave the Saudi king a tour of his ranch?

<p style="margin: 15px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: line; : transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;">Though this is somewhat shocking to Americans, it is a culturally acceptable tradition in the Middle East.

<p style="margin: 15px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: line; : transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;">But for an American government official to bow down in obeisance to a foreign royal is an entirely different matter. And it is <em style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: line; : transparent;">astonishing for an American president to do so.

<p style="margin: 15px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: line; : transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;">Which is why nobody was particularly shocked when President Obama didn’t bow before Queen Elizabeth of England. We really didn’t expect him to. Americans are not subject to British royalty and therefore bowing before British royalty would be an insult to American sovereignty.

<p style="margin: 15px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: line; : transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;">Your average American tourist would be too proud of his country and too independent to bow himself low before the British crown.

<p style="margin: 15px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: line; : transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;">American officials do not bow themselves low or curtsy before a foreign monarch because such a gesture symbolizes recognition of that foreign monarch’s authority and power over the government they represent.

<p style="margin: 15px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: line; : transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;">When the president met with Queen Elizabeth, Obama scandalized British royal protocol by taking both her hands and giving them a hearty shake. British protocol, (a subject in which we assume the Obamas were instructed) forbids one from taking the Queen’s proffered hand, instead expecting one to simply brush the royal digits and withdraw.

<p style="margin: 15px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: line; : transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;">OK, so Obama practically yanked both her arms off. So what? We’re Americans. She’s queen of England, not queen of America.

<p style="margin: 15px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: line; : transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;">Despite the White House denials, President Obama offered King Abdullah a deep, subservient bow of the kind offered by a subject before his king. I don’t think I am reading too much into this. Whatever President Obama thinks Abdullah deserves in the way of subservient fealty, we Americans believe it lowers our sovereign prestige.

<span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: line; : transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;">
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2009/04/94521/#JlbrAAfbAw0sAO2p.99</span>
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Cant deny the VT...He was bowing..clearly. Which is probably due to his Islamic heritage background and definitely displayed subservience to the same. Or appeasement in the case of the Mullahs in Iran.

In either case his destructive foreign policies couples with Kerry and Clinton's efforts to gain a lasting legacy as peace makers. Which failed utterly.

His NP was as much a gift to the first African American Pres as for any constructive policy efforts...Iow. His race made the difference not accomplishments.


DT like him or not...and btw I'm not a loyal dog here for him either; I already disagree with certain of his decision making efforts. Appreciate his style of foreign policy or not. Wont be bowing to anybody in the near future.

And this is as it should be.

Edited by Dark Warrior - 14 Oct 2017 at 16:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 16:24
  Going back to BLM and the players kneeling, I tend to support both. Perhaps more people would support BLM if it was BLMA(Black Lives Matter Also).

  The USA was founded on the idea of protest and because of a feeling of being without a voice. To be heard Americans took drastic actions to make it understood that we weren't happy with the status quo.

  African Americans have felt they were being the target of abuses. After Ferguson(Which I believe the cop was correct in this case) everything blew up. BLM didn't come about yet, but it was the start. Anger boiled over because no matter how much they yelled and even talked to the media, it was if they were ignored. Many people took advantage of peaceful protest and the media put the focus on the bad, because that makes ratings for them.

  BLM has marched in my state of Connecticut and it has been peaceful. It didn't even make the news locally because there wasn't any issues. They had a route around the city, they stuck to it and exercised the VERY FIRST AMENDMENT in our Constitution(which is what soldiers take a oath to, not the flag).

  Now, BLM has tried to protest, but the good from it is never allowed to be shone. There is bad in it, from those who come with their own prejudices and vile motives. They get the attention, but at it's core, and I believe the majority of those who are trying to give a voice to BLM, which there are many chapters, really just want a discussion of the issues THEY feel exist. Whether they do or don't(I feel they do) doesn't matter. Because if you love America and the idea of it, then you should give them the podium to speak, and we should be able to respond, it's called a dialogue. Not having a dialogue causes protests and have in the past birthed Nations such as the USA which then gave way to a Constitution For the People(that includes African Americans) and made sure they had their Freedom of Speech as a basic right that could not be infringed on by others.

  Which now brings me to the NFL players. They do have everything, money, cars, mansions, all from playing a sport they love. They also have something most people fail to mention, families. Parents and cousins, even friends who still live in the neighborhoods they were fortunate enough to escape from by working hard on their skills. They go back to those neighborhoods on Thanksgiving and Christmas and get to hear about hardships that they once endured. Many have talked of their own experiences too, no one listened.
  And while Americans want to sit home and forget about how their work day went or the news on tv, their families don't have that option. African American fathers have to drill into their son's heads to keep their mouths shut around police. We only hear about the angry ones who didn't, and then the whole African American community is blamed for having a culture of disobedience.

  Kneeling was the answer for the players, or has become one. When Kaperinick first did his silent protest, he sat down. A Navy Seal went up to him and had a dialogue before passing judgement> Kapernick told him it wasn't meant to be disrespect to soldiers or anyone who died for the country, but for unfair treatment of African Americans and those who died without ever signing up to put their lives on the line. It was then that the Navy Seal suggested he kneel.

 
Kapernick didn't loot or burn down buildings, he didn't block streets or highways. All of which were on 24hr news cycles portraying an idea of change to be only an idea of Anarchy. So he used his celebrity, a risk he knew could blackball him, and tried to bring about a dialogue. And though he never said it was against the people who fought for this country, instantly people overlooked his Freedom of Speech and dismissed his dialogue and substituted it for something vile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dark Warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 16:57
And the Navy SEAL knew better....or was of like opinion. Which means the advice rendered was also incorrect, imo. And disrespectful. Don't waste my time to protest at a sporting event. The venue while huge and opportunistic. Remains wrong.

I'm not there to watch civic protests. I didn't spend my money, hard earned to participate in the same there. I came to watch a sporting event.

But as I noted when I opened this. We all remain entitled to various view points. Btw nice to meet you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 17:11
Quote SearchAndDestroy Which now brings me to the NFL players. They do have everything, money, cars, mansions, all from playing a sport they love. They also have something most people fail to mention, families. Parents and cousins, even friends who still live in the neighborhoods they were fortunate enough to escape from by working hard on their skills. They go back to those neighborhoods on Thanksgiving and Christmas and get to hear about hardships that they once endured. Many have talked of their own experiences too, no one listened. 

Maybe they have a greater responsibility then they would like to admit, meaning NFL players. Taking a knee is a pretty minimal effort.  And no one knows what it means in the context of them being on the job and snubbing the anthem. It will have no positive influence on their struggle.

When you say no one listens to complaints about racism I wonder, what country you are living in? Connecticut sounds like a foreign land. Regional differences I guess. I'm in Massachusetts, AA's are educated, healthy and middle class we never see arson and assaults at protests. There is a huge discrepancy in local political power bc  high black populations don't have enough black people in office according to some. So their views are not adequately defended. 

Who do you blame for that??


Edited by Vanuatu - 14 Oct 2017 at 17:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 17:55
Originally posted by Dark Warrior Dark Warrior wrote:

And the Navy SEAL knew better....or was of like opinion. Which means the advice rendered was also incorrect, imo. And disrespectful. Don't waste my time to protest at a sporting event. The venue while huge and opportunistic. Remains wrong.
He knew better after having a dialogue with Kapernick. He said to him not showing any kind of acknowledgement towards the flag was disrespectful and that maybe he should take a knee instead. Kapernick agreed and started to do so.


Originally posted by Dark Warrior Dark Warrior wrote:

I'm not there to watch civic protests. I didn't spend my money, hard earned to participate in the same there. I came to watch a sporting event.
Lets face it, watching a sport is nothing more than a luxury. Whether how you perceive or they perceive reality doesn't matter, having a dialogue does. They have got you talking about a issue that others tried and failed at. Black celebrities(actor, athlete, and political activist) and even white ones have gone out to protests and nothing has changed.
  Now you have athletes trying something to bring attention to the message others have tried to put forth. And because it makes you uncomfortable during a time of luxury, a sport, something that means nothing after you turn the tv off, that's the problem. Your opinion is they are disrespecting lives lost on the battle field, their opinion is they are using their constitutional right to shine light on Americans losing their lives on the streets of America.

Originally posted by Dark Warrior Dark Warrior wrote:

But as I noted when I opened this. We all remain entitled to various view points. Btw nice to meet you.

My view point is one I believe that comes from the constitution and the forefathers. That every American may speak their mind, and they may use it whenever they like, and so it was written as the very FIRST protected right of Americans.
  You have the right to say what you like, you also have the right to be offended. But you don't have the right to tell someone where they can use their constitutional rights, no matter how uncomfortable it may make you.

It's also a pleasure to meet you.


Originally posted by Vanautu Vanautu wrote:

Maybe they have a greater responsibility then they would like to admit, meaning NFL players. Taking a knee is a pretty minimal effort.  And no one knows what it means in the context of them being on the job and snubbing the anthem. It will have no positive influence on their struggle.

Do you forget the effort of BLM? Or MLK? I left discussing the knee to the end of my post because I felt I needed to explain what had got it to that point. I feel I have explained it.


Originally posted by Vanautu Vanautu wrote:

When you say no one listens to complaints about racism I wonder, what country you are living in? Connecticut sounds like a foreign land. Regional differences I guess. I'm in Massachusetts, AA's are educated, healthy and middle class we never see arson and assaults at protests. There is a huge discrepancy in local political power bc  high black populations don't have enough black people in office according to some. So their views are not adequately defended.

So because our region is good, which I mentioned about BLM marching in the city of Waterbury in CT, that we should not see the issues in other regions of the country? Don't you think that is the PROBLEM that they are trying to bring to the forefront?

I'll tell you, here in Connecticut, there are some prominent blacks in power and white politicians do address the issues of minority citizens. Perhaps Mass does have bigger issues then CT. I guess CT maybe this "foreign land" because we are a head of our time?

The issue is the country as a whole. Are we talking about Americans, or are we to bury our heads in the sand because New Englanders are better off?



Edited by SearchAndDestroy - 14 Oct 2017 at 18:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 18:55
Originally posted by Vanautu Vanautu wrote:

When you say no one listens to complaints about racism I wonder, what country you are living in? Connecticut sounds like a foreign land. Regional differences I guess. I'm in Massachusetts, AA's are educated, healthy and middle class we never see arson and assaults at protests. There is a huge discrepancy in local political power bc  high black populations don't have enough black people in office according to some. So their views are not adequately defended.

So because our region is good, which I mentioned about BLM marching in the city of Waterbury in CT, that we should not see the issues in other regions of the country? Don't you think that is the PROBLEM that they are trying to bring to the forefront? 

I'll tell you, here in Connecticut, there are some prominent blacks in power and white politicians do address the issues of minority citizens. Perhaps Mass does have bigger issues then CT. I guess CT maybe this "foreign land" because we are a head of our time?

The issue is the country as a whole. Are we talking about Americans, or are we to bury our heads in the sand because New Englanders are better off?

No I do not say Connecticut is ahead of it's time lol. I think you all are about the same as Ma. and other New England states. The point is that conditions here allow it to be so, not advocating ignoring the rest of the country. Obviously people can get along and compete economically. Whatever forces are stopping that from happening elsewhere are from the BLM movement itself or others in their "WAR AGAINST" whatever it is this week. 
Would you detail some of these horrors with statistics or describe incidents that particularly indicate racial bias? thanks


Edited by Vanuatu - 14 Oct 2017 at 18:55
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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