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Trump and the domestic arena
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 Posted: 30 May 2017 at 12:25 |
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Vanuatu
What you say could be true. But this particular big fish is continually embarassing himself, and by extension, his country. He must be the most controversial US President this early in his administration, in US history. Usually there's a sweetheart period after the inauguration, but not this time.
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Vanuatu
Administrator 
Joined: 24 Feb 2015 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
Posted: 30 May 2017 at 13:22 |
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Well you know, says you  Someone said , and it's worth repeating If Trump discovered a cure for cancer, the headlines would read "Trump puts doctors out of work!" Obama was a daily embarrassment IMHO.
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Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
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Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 11:52 |
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Yeah, we disagree on the President, but we won't fight about him. Latest in the media is the report card from European leaders from the G7. Donny's been a naughty boy and is losing friends quickly-in their words, not mine. |
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Vanuatu
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Joined: 24 Feb 2015 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 12:31 |
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Certainly can't blame you for holding that opinion. One of the European leaders made a very positive comment about Trump. Noting that he's not coming over to Europe with flowery speeches and nonsense ideas like the Paris treaty (which may call upon China to cut their emissions (teehee) by some amount sometime after 2030). However I soon realized that the one good quote was buried so far, under so much narrative that I could not locate it for you. Instead I offer the lovely Mark Stein and invite you to take in the Canadian air. Very smart and funny.
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Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
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Posted: 02 Jun 2017 at 02:19 |
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Why would I want to take in the Canadian air, when I live in the place which is recorded as having the cleanest air and rain water in the world. That's true by the way.
The Roaring 40's across the Indian Ocean reach Tasmania where they dump their first rain onto an atmosphere unpolluted by industry or anything else. With a population of just .5 million of course we have very, comparatively speaking, minor pollution around our industrial areas, but nothing at all like the pollution on the big island to our north. The air is clean, crime is low and life is beautiful, what more could we ask for, oh yeah, higher wages and lower taxes.
Edited by toyomotor - 02 Jun 2017 at 02:20 |
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Posted: 02 Jun 2017 at 12:31 |
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Vanuatu
Getting back on topic, and trying to be as impartial as I can, if I were to be a US citizen I would be very concerned about your president. Is he making these major decisions, like exiting the Paris Accord on Climate Change, on the advice of government experts or or they at his own whim? I just don't know. What other major decisions that he's made have been made at his own whim rather than on the advice of his experts, if any. Does he expressly provide what the people are asking for? I'd be interested to know. |
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Vanuatu
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Joined: 24 Feb 2015 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
Posted: 03 Jun 2017 at 12:03 |
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I asked you to listen to the Canadian Mark Steyn bc Tasmania seems to be devoid of all conservative opinion. It's like they are only funneling left wing ramblings. The lead story on MSNBC the other day was "why does Trump get two scoops of ice cream, while the rest of the family has only one?"  The Paris accord is a non binding resolution that isn't going to change the environment. The idea is global wealth redistribution at the expense of the US taxpayer. Now you like to mock the lack of wage increases as though it's a fixation but what you don't hear are the masses of everyday people who work for wages and are sick of the liberal lies. It's not a whim. The people who do understand the Paris accord, are not for it. Try reading some conservative opinions toyomotor, you are wading in b***s***. Trump offered to renegotiate and Europe says No Thanks! They were looking forward to milking every dime out of us and now they won't, no apologies for being industrialized before China and India and we continue to decrease emissions at 18% a year since G.Bush got us out of the nutty Kyoto agreement that Bill Clinton gave birth to. The only thing the Paris accord guarantees is a yearly meeting at a very expensive restaurant for these Euro-thieves that Obama was only too happy to appease. Ok Longfellow?  *Obama never tried to have this 'agreement' ratified in congress bc he knew it would NEVER pass a vote. It's only real to Obama and his playmates, no one in the REAL WORLD does business this way. If your employer said in theory you have a retirement plan but it's non binding, so if we decide not to pay up, you lose toyomotor, would you go for that?
Edited by Vanuatu - 05 Jun 2017 at 05:29 |
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Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
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Posted: 03 Jun 2017 at 12:34 |
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Vanuatu
That's below the belt. Tasmania's quite the contrary really, quite conservative, although this is where the Green Movement in Australia first got off the ground. The questions were mine alone, because the decision, in my mind, went against all recognised opinion, and against the other 6 top leaders. I merely wondered if he was acting a la Lone Wolf or if it was government policy, based on advice from his experts, I wasn't having a go at him this time. Personally, although maybe you haven't come to recognise it, I'm conservative, come from a conservative background and occupation and am more than just a little interested in your president, due mainly to the almost daily reported gaffes that he's been involved in. I know that you see it differently. As for the video link-Steyn- I did watch it, and I agree, partially with him. But from networking and collaboration come new ideas on how to deal with problems, and it could have been that the Paris meetings could have provided some ideas which the US could have used. I did say "could have". To just walk away and say "Upya" doesn't seem to be the way, to me at least. Edited by toyomotor - 03 Jun 2017 at 12:43 |
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Vanuatu
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Joined: 24 Feb 2015 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
Posted: 03 Jun 2017 at 12:43 |
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You do seem conservative that's why your question was puzzling. The gaffs are subjective and the six Euro-leaders are asked to make no changes that they don't care to make. They were allowed to set their own benchmarks bc attempts at a unified code for compliance with emissions has been un-attainable. Europe and Asia are citing the US and our industrial success as the reason why they need not conform to the current US standards.
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Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
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Posted: 03 Jun 2017 at 12:59 |
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Not seem, am. Yes they are subjective, and as I've explained before, being so far away, all I can go on is media reports from our own media and sources like the New York Times and CNN. Are they objective? I don't know. I have a lot of respect for Angela Merkel, she appears to be level heanded and progressive. Yeah, I know, she's created a real problem over the refugee immigration, but, what could she do? Have them all shot? Mr Trump has insulted her on the international stage for no apparent reason, so I would lean towards whatever decision she makes on the Paris Accord, recognising that what's good for Europe ain't necessarily gunna work in Yonkers. Obviously each country has to examine it's own pollution problem and work out means to fix it, but brainstorming isn't a bad idea. |
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Vanuatu
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Joined: 24 Feb 2015 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
Posted: 03 Jun 2017 at 13:18 |
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And being so far away maybe you could listen to some of the conservative voices that are being left out of the conversation internationally and attacked at the national level. Merkel wasn't supposed to have anyone shot, no sir. Again refugees were being subsidized and the EU did have plan for a slow ordered diaspora. That was shot to hell well Merkel went rogue and decided that for this major decision the EU wasn't important only what Merkel wanted mattered. Which was what? To be an angel of mercy to islamic refugees while destroying the good life of German citizens? What a flippin' hero! Trump doesn't respect her and I'm sure he knew that he wasn't going to make any of the Euro leaders very happy and they have all talked a lot of crap about him , so there is a reason why he is on guard with her. With exception of Theresa May who has criticized Trump without demonizing him, all the Euro-leaders are afraid of Trump and I personally prefer it that way.
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Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
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franciscosan
WorldHistoria Master 
Joined: 09 Feb 2015 Location: Littleton CO Status: Offline Points: 10886 |
Posted: 03 Jun 2017 at 15:04 |
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Donald Trump's motto is make America great again.
But America is already great, and under Trump it is becoming increasingly was, not is. Trump is a disaster, and he will be the ruin of America. PJ O'Rourke, a conservative humorist advocated Hillary because she was only a normal distaster, Whereas Trump was and is an extraordinary disaster. Donald Trump is not a conservative, religious right, knee jerk red neck may think he is their man, after much denial they will eventually find out otherwise. They are living it up right now, but they will soon find out who is on the receiving end of the relationship.
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Posted: 03 Jun 2017 at 17:54 |
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Vanuatu
Gulp!!! I didn't mean to step on your toe, any of them.  I've considered abandoning this thread, because I seem to have foot in Mouth disease. That I'm, sort of, supported by Franciscosan has convinced me that this would be the best course. The white flag is raised, that cloud of dust in the distance is me, beating a |
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Vanuatu
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Joined: 24 Feb 2015 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
Posted: 04 Jun 2017 at 12:39 |
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You poor little lamb. Don't we always fight on the Trump thread? What happens on the Trump thread, stays on the Trump thread. The Heritage Foundation is a conservative think tank, they break it all down and you will understand the push back. Note, franciscosan is just dumping on Trump there is no discussion of the events. http://www.heritage.org/impact/heritage-research-impacts-trumps-decision-withdraw-paris-climate-deal Edited by Vanuatu - 05 Jun 2017 at 05:34 |
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Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
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Posted: 04 Jun 2017 at 13:10 |
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A lot of my comments are based on my wish to be informed, rather than cause an arguement. By making statements based on the media reports, I'm hoping that someone totally unbiased (no, not you
 ) will tell me what's happening.Frank seems to be so far right of centre(or is it left, I can never tell) that he'd wear out a pair of boots walking back and people like the Captain Panther and Caldrail don't seem to be about anymore. You seem to me to be a political animal, that is you have a keen interest in politics and know what's going on. I'm not political at all, I vote for the same party every election safe in the knowledge that they'll do better than the other blokes. I'm a conservative, but if I have to be classified further, I'd be slightly right of centre, more of a hawk than a dove, but with some dove like tendencies. Now, having digressed so far from the topic, mea culpa, I say this, my interest at present is not so much in US politics, because I don't understand how the system could exist as it is, but more about the President himself and the media attention he attracts. And he does attract media attention, whether rightly or wrongly. |
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Vanuatu
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Joined: 24 Feb 2015 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
Posted: 04 Jun 2017 at 13:38 |
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I understand that and in my delicate way I try to give you the flip side, the antethesis of democratic fake news
Neither here nor there. I read back in the threads, it seems like politics split the group off at the end eh?
You draw a line at being overrun by saber wielding maniacs. You want 'unbiased' but you are limiting your sources of information; how can make up your mind if you just keep eating the pablum? Politics isn't your life but now it matters more bc all of the international press 'sky is falling' chicken littles have become deranged over an outsider POTUS who does things without being in the pocket of political puppet-masters or prisoner to political correctness. He actually is very popular with voters. Do you think that I'm making that up?
The president should be scrutinized but this is hysteria. You haven't digressed this is about Trump and that should include what the leftist in the US have done to obstruct and tear down the administration. The system of false news isn't new at all. It's just more difficult to keep all the sheep in line. Information can't be controlled like it was 30 years ago, that explains the intensity of the false news narrative. |
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Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
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Posted: 04 Jun 2017 at 19:40 |
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Fair suck of the sav! What other sources do I have? I read the internet reports from what I believe are reliable and comparatively unbiased sources from Australia, US and around the world.
Obviously not all of them, possibly not even a majority. Perhaps I should subscribe to the GOP Monthly Newsletters!!! |
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Vanuatu
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Joined: 24 Feb 2015 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 05:02 |
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Why not GOP? You have been listening to the jackasses of the dnc. You should try Fox News, I know it's available online. That's if you are actually interested in information. Our media is mostly liberal, you know the people who control most of the information? The people who supported Trump continue to support him and those who would rather attack him over attacking terrorists, still hate him. Now you can list all of the presidents, including the Australian presidents who have had support of ALL the voters. |
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Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
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Vanuatu
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Joined: 24 Feb 2015 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 05:04 |
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Edited by Vanuatu - 05 Jun 2017 at 05:12 |
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Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
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franciscosan
WorldHistoria Master
Joined: 09 Feb 2015 Location: Littleton CO Status: Offline Points: 10886 |
Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 10:15 |
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Donald Trump has about a 35 % approval rating and it is slowly, but steadily creeping down.
I doubt looking at Fox News will give anything like a balanced news perspective, Fox is good for looking at what the Fringe on the right are doing, this Fringe is very active, and visible, and often Pro-Trump. They are right now the tail wagging the dog of the republican party. Trump is playing up to them, and is even endorsing some of their bad ideas, although he had formerly had good ones (on health care). I am sure minions and dittoheads of Fox would consider me a Rhino, I like Rhinos, they're tough, and thick skinned, they are hard to get moving when stopped and hard to stop when moving. The Fox freaks consider Rhino to be derogatory, (Republican in name only). They would rather have litmus loyalty tests and thought police. Scratch that, they don't want thought police, they don't want thought at all, just knee jerk obedience to the whims of some very flawed individuals. The religious right and the school voucher system are a little high right now because they're getting some traction on their issues, formerly having been shut out. They may be able to change pieces of the system, but I do wonder if all that means is that when they're gone, and when the wave of backlash against Trump's presidency, comes in, will everything just revert back to the way it was with NEA (teacher's unions) ruling K-12 but this time out with a (self-) righteous vengeance.
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Vanuatu
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Joined: 24 Feb 2015 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 12:46 |
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Are those the same polls that said he would never win the presidency?
As opposed to the left wing media that saturates every newscast with anti_Trump_ dump? No one is suggesting that you watch Fox , your head would explode. Are you referring to the right wing fringe that got him elected? Then you mean most of the working class, not academics who endorse destruction of property, the murder of police and the unwavering allegiance to policies that want America to crawl for Europe and the Third world.
And the leftist dog pooping on it's tail or whatever nonsense you are spouting today, is superior to everyone else? The issues affecting the working class don't matter, right?
Don't forget nearly blind. a rhino sees only 30 feet in front of him but can run at 30 miles per hour. So when he is charging he is running blind. Sounds like a RINO to me, only one type I'd like to save.
You really are backwards, so far Hillary has 40 entities that she blames for losing the election. No thought required just roll with it lefty.
That makes very little sense. You started out strong but then as usual your emotions turn you into a babbling stereotype. Edited by Mod.
Edited by toyomotor - 05 Jun 2017 at 13:10 |
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Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
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Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 13:09 |
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Vanuatu
Might be better if you didn't resort to name calling.
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Vanuatu
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Joined: 24 Feb 2015 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 13:20 |
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Egghead respectfully withdrawn. Oh never mind you already censored me.
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Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
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franciscosan
WorldHistoria Master
Joined: 09 Feb 2015 Location: Littleton CO Status: Offline Points: 10886 |
Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 15:02 |
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So you think that 48 % actually voted _for_ Trump? A lot of people voted against Hillary, not so much for Trump. Hillary Clinton got three million more votes than Donald, they were just concentrated in the Eastern seaboard and the left coast. Didn't really help. Of course, Donald Trump cannot stand that he won not by popular vote, but only by the electoral college. You might say Donald won from a technicality, and like everything else it sticks in his craw.
A friend recently told me that those who get their news from Fox are more ignorant than those who don't pay attention to the news at all. Whether or not it is true, I am not sure, but it does make sense at least, and Vanuatu's bombastic attitude does nothing to dispel it. As far as most news media outlets being biased, well of course they are bias. There is no such thing as a purely objective news cast. The question is can you use different media outlets to compliment each other and get a more rounded view of what is going on. So if you want, sure, listen to talk radio, but listen to NPR, BBC, NHK, DW and if your in the mood for a real propagandistic use of the news, RT. If you do that, you will see that one paints the picture from one perspective and leave certain things out, whereas another will do another perspective. You watch a mix of perspectives on the same issue, and soon you will realize what perspective leaves out what kind of things. Media outlets have blindspots, and learning about different ones, helps one recognize those blindspots. Of course, some of those blindspots are limitations they recognize, others are not so much. But the belief that Donald Trump is being picked on doesn't understand the role of the press in the United States, HL Mencken said the relationship between the press and the presidency is like that of a dog and a lamppost. Trump's adoring fans don't seem to understand why the press could be so mean to him. After all, he has feelings too!
 . Some people have a belief that if someone is persecuted an picked on, then they must really be a righteous person. They cannot accept that maybe all this flack Donald Trump is getting is deserved and has been deserved all Trump's ugly life. I am not worried about Donald Trump's survival, I am worried about the rest of us, including the politicians who have harnessed their boat to his yacht |
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Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 16:34 |
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Franciscosan
IMHO, the flack that your President attracts is deserved, if what the media is saying is accurate. Vanuatu presents a different view to that you provide, in fact you are diametrically opposed. As I've written previously, never in my lifetime has a national leader, let alone a US President attracted so much criticism in such a short time. I can only judge from what the media tells me. Vanuatu says that the media I source is biased, how am I to know, after all it's US media. From the electronic media clips I've seen, I've formed the opinion that the man's an arrogant meglomaniac with his own opinions on everything, which he seems keen to share with the world, however wrong he may be. He started with the estimates of the crowd at his inauguration, and went from one false fact to another, down hill from there. I anticipate another roasting from V, but, that's my opinion of the man, and it's an opinion formed long before he entered politics. Edited by toyomotor - 05 Jun 2017 at 16:35 |
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franciscosan
WorldHistoria Master
Joined: 09 Feb 2015 Location: Littleton CO Status: Offline Points: 10886 |
Posted: 06 Jun 2017 at 07:52 |
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Well, even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and so I am willing to say there may be things Donald Trump is right on (as in the equivalent of 2 seconds, out of a 24 hour period, if a second represents what he gets right 2/24x60x60). I have tried giving him some benefit of the doubt, but he makes it hard to see the silver lining.
When he was elected, the market went up, thinking that with Republicans in, there would be a loosening up of regulation, now however, I understand that the market went down, seeing the havoc created by the Whitehouse.
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Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 21:04 |
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A proven liar says that he will give evidence on oath? (Hee hee hee!)
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es_bih
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Status: Offline Points: 6369 |
Posted: 11 Jun 2017 at 03:20 |
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I don't know which one of you two is more senile.
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es_bih
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Status: Offline Points: 6369 |
Posted: 11 Jun 2017 at 03:21 |
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I give you credit for even trying. North and his commie friends have decided to destroy the last bit of hope this once great community had.
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es_bih
King
Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Status: Offline Points: 6369 |
Posted: 11 Jun 2017 at 03:23 |
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“Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.” |
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