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Trump and the domestic arena

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2017 at 15:34
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote Do you know what this idiot said in front of a reporter?

Which idiot are we talking about?

Quote What president would let him keep his job?


Which idiot President hired him?




By my count, nine have been fired to date, unless of course one's been sacked today and I haven't heard yet.

Without getting into the actual politics, you must admit, the man's a fool.

Edited by Mod!


Very funny and I'll let you enjoy that.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2017 at 16:08
We could look at reasons to call lots of people fools. toyomotor- You brush off the increase in jobs and positive economic indicators bc you don't live here and you certainly didn't try earning a living here under the Obama admin.

As for Russia, what are you waiting for? Why don't you show this ignorant red neck all this proof you keep babbling about. We have had a prolonged investigation of legal behavior as evidenced in the press.

Comey was a maniac who conducted himself like no FBI director in my lifetime; continually blurred the lines between his job and his personal feelings about people involved. Hillary and his comments about her , his expressed personal affinity for Loretta Lynch and the unprofessional way he treated Attorney General Jeff Sessions, seem undisciplined and unprofessional. Not appropriate for his role. 
He was off the rails before the election and democrats wanted him fired before the election.

 The republicans who always hated Trump, still do. They went along with the program once he had the nomination and now they obstruct progress in the senate.

The Military is not the place to get a sex change.
When people go through sexual reassignment they need monitored hormone therapy and a psychologist. Do some research you'll see it's true. It's not the time to do devote yourself to military service.
That is the problem with transgender in the military. No one wants to pay for that.

Maybe the obvious flaws that everyone can see in Trump are less harmful than the elevation of Obama to Messiah by the vox populi. 


Edited by Vanuatu - 02 Aug 2017 at 16:15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2017 at 02:42
As I've written a number of times, my sources are the media, some American, some like AAP and so on. I can only take the media I trust on face value, but, from the number of similar reports, I suggest that they're pretty close to the truth.

I comment on those reports, and the reports are numerous, almost to the point of exhaustion, of what some US correspodents call "egregious" acts by your President. Where I've expressed a personal opinion, I've usually expressed it as such. I'm as entitled to my opinions as you are to yours, however wrong they may be.

Quote As for Russia, what are you waiting for? Why don't you show this ignorant red neck all this proof you keep babbling about. We have had a prolonged investigation of legal behavior as evidenced in the press.
And, if reports are correct, White House Staffers are investigating members of the investigating teams backgrounds, with the intent of intimidating them, trying to get dirt to throw when the opportunity arises.

I've never said that the Russia allegations are ,fact, but, I would have thought that, to any reasoinable minded person, they would be cause for some concern.

And I've never called you a red neck!!!

You accuse me of babbling-
Quote Babbling defined-talk rapidly and continuously in a foolish, excited, or incomprehensible way.
.
Well I'm sorry if you can't comprehend what I write, you should ask for explanations. If you consider my writings foolish, that's a subjective observation.

I've not read or heard one article that accuses Comey of being
Quote  a maniac who conducted himself like no FBI director
in your lifetime. NOT ONE!

I tend to agree with you about the sex changes. The Military should not foot the bill for sex changes-the person concerned shoud either have had the procedure before enlistment, or take Special Leave Without Pay while the procedure and after car is undertaken. We have no argument there.

I watch CNN and so far I haven't seen one commentator who has said that Obama was a worse president than Trump is now.

It's not my fault if he's committed faux pas after faux pas, including blatant lying, to the extent that there is now strong doubt throughout the western world that America is capable of being the leader.

No, I've never lived and worked in the US, but being a keen supporter of the US, I keep as close a watch on what'sgoing on as I can. Perhaps the difference between us is that I'm in a position to make comparisons, where you've had the same system all of your life, and know no different.

But, there's one very important point about the USA and it's president, a point that can only be shared by several other people in the world, and it's this.

The USA is recognised by all as the leader of the Western World, whatever happens in the USA, financially, politically and militarily, is watched very carefully  by the communist world, which is quick to respond in it's own way. Pesident Trump, IMHO, has projected himself as a bufoon with no idea of diplomacy or government, which, again IMHO, will/is providing opportunities for others to capitalise on what they see as weakness. One example could be China's incursion into the South China Sea, granted, commenced under Obama. Another could be China's fence sitting over North Korea; another, North Korea's continual provocation without any real  reaction. And there are more.

Some of the points that I've made in this post, I submit, are arguable, you may see it differently, but others are matters of fact (his lack of diplomacy, lies, unstable administration staff, nepotism etc). If President Trump is to gain the credibility he badly needs to be the leader of the Free World, he needs to listen to experienced politicians,diplomats and militarists and act on their advice, not on that of his White House clique, IMHO!


Edited by toyomotor - 03 Aug 2017 at 03:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2017 at 22:41
Former FBI director was in a tight spot, damned if he did, damned if he didn't.  It was really Hillary Clinton with her private server that put her under investigation, things were concluded, then no they weren't because new emails from Anthony Weiner's wife surfaced.  Comey had either to pay attention to them and let one side scream, or he could have ignored them and let the other side scream.  Either way, he would be tarnished.  But the fact that he is a little tarnished has nothing to do with President Trump wanting to get rid of him.  Donald Trump want the Russian investigation to go away, and the easiest way to do that it seems is for him to stack the deck.  He can't get rid of the trails of evidence the hounds are sniffing at, but he can mess with the bloodhounds.  He is not at all concerned about the implications of using the FBI in such a way, in American justice, if he degrades US institutions, by serving his own private ends, that is fine with him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2017 at 01:03
We currently have two different threads concerning Trump, but, IMHO, there perhaps there should only be one.

I say this because the decisions, the comments he makes domestically can, and often do, echo around the world.
 
His comments and decisions, along with those of the authoratative media can and do drive market forces around the world.

Well may President Trump be a billionaire, but he's also filed for bankruptcy  on more than one occasion, proving that he's not infallible.

As I've written previously, I feel that he will be the author of his own doom.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2017 at 01:45
Donald Trump is not a billionaire, he wants people to believe he is, and he is rich, but in the 100s of millions, not the billions range, according to real billionaires, and high priced accountants that handle such things, he just doesn't have enough property, they say, to be in the billion dollar range.  After the first couple of bankruptcies, he has learned how to loose other people's money rather than his own.  I think that there is enough disaster for two threads, domestic and foreign, but they are competing against each other.  I think the format of worldhistoria forum could use revamping, but I don't that a reorganization is in the cards, anytime soon.

But if you get right down into details, you will see that Trump believes his name is worth a billion, and because he believes it, it is so, and because his followers believe it, maybe it is so for them too.  Of course, most accountants don't know how to calculate how much his "name" is worth, so in the boisterous attitude of Trump, who's to say he is not right??  I am just worried about when the honeymoon is over (did it ever start for most people?) and his fans wake up next to the frog that had been a Prince.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2017 at 08:05
Franciscosan

[quote] I think the format of worldhistoria forum could use revamping, but I don't that a reorganization is in the cards, anytime soon.[quote]

Completely off topic of course, but if that's what you think, why not have the gumption to send your suggestions to Northman for his consideration?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2017 at 15:16
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

As I've written a number of times, my sources are the media, some American, some like AAP and so on. I can only take the media I trust on face value, but, from the number of similar reports, I suggest that they're pretty close to the truth.

You may be looking at different sources but they are all on the same team, your team "Trump must fail."

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

I comment on those reports, and the reports are numerous, almost to the point of exhaustion, of what some US correspodents call "egregious" acts by your President. Where I've expressed a personal opinion, I've usually expressed it as such. I'm as entitled to my opinions as you are to yours, however wrong they may be.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion forgive me but I feel that you are only interested in negative reports. The press has reached a level of treason by attacking Trump to the exclusion of all else.

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote As for Russia, what are you waiting for? Why don't you show this ignorant red neck all this proof you keep babbling about. We have had a prolonged investigation of legal behavior as evidenced in the press.
And, if reports are correct, White House Staffers are investigating members of the investigating teams backgrounds, with the intent of intimidating them, trying to get dirt to throw when the opportunity arises.

I've never said that the Russia allegations are ,fact, but, I would have thought that, to any reasoinable minded person, they would be cause for some concern.

And I've never called you a red neck!!!

Reports are pure fabrication. The Russia distraction is a side show. Reasonable people would have expected evidence. Obama plainly said before the election, believing that Trump had no chance to win, that it was virtually impossible to rig the US election. 

Yet he knew about Russian hacking and wasn't worried, so I wonder how can reasonable people take it seriously?
Was Obama just being an idiot and didn't care what Russia did since he was on the way out?

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

You accuse me of babbling-
Quote Babbling defined-talk rapidly and continuously in a foolish, excited, or incomprehensible way.
.
Well I'm sorry if you can't comprehend what I write, you should ask for explanations. If you consider my writings foolish, that's a subjective observation.

I don't need to say 'babble' and I won't anymore I'm sorry to offend, sincerely.

When you repeat things that they say on CNN it sounds it sounds like you are coming from another planet. 

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

I've not read or heard one article that accuses Comey of being
Quote  a maniac who conducted himself like no FBI director
in your lifetime. NOT ONE!

I guess you weren't following pre-election Comey. There are hundreds of articles noting the big flip flop.

Few Democrats suffered such severe political whiplash over the firing of FBI Director James Comey as Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.).

Over the course of just a few months, Schumer has shifted wildly on the FBI director. The Democratic leader heaped praise on Comey for decisions that benefitted Democrats and tried to damn Comey for decisions that hurt Democrats. On Tuesday, Schumer suggested the decision to fire Comey was indicative of a “cover-up.”

“My confidence in the FBI director’s ability to lead this agency has been shaken.”

Schumer held a press conference on Tuesday after President Donald Trump fired Comey, blasting the decision and telling reporters he earlier told Trump that he was making a mistake in firing Comey.

But a reporter immediately brought up a different opinion Schumer had of Comey last November.

“Sen. Schumer, you told me last year before the election that you lost confidence in Jim Comey because of how he handled the email scandal,” one reporter said. “Do you think that the president’s explanation … has credibility?”

"I never called on the president to fire Director Comey," said Schumer.

Schumer then said Trump should have fired Comey earlier in his young presidency if he had some of the same concerns as Democrats.

It was a clever ploy. But it cannot hide the fact that Democrats have hated Comey for months. Many blame Comey for Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton's losing the election. Comey famously released a letter to Congress just before the Nov. 8 election indicating that he was reopening an investigation into how Clinton handled classified emails.

Comey, being Comey, closed the new investigation in record time, ending the investigation two days before Election Day and enraging Republicans by publicly declaring he still would not recommend charges against Clinton. Schumer indicated Comey's handling of the matter was a deal-breaker. "I do not have confidence in him any longer," Schumer said of Comey on Nov. 2.

Schumer called Comey's letter to Congress "appalling."

Schumer is far from the only Democrat who has questioned Comey's judgement or called for his firing.

"Maybe he's not in the right job," House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) told CNN on Nov. 2.

Clinton adviser James Carville went so far as to bizarrely suggest Comey, House Republicans, and the KGB (disbanded during the collapse of the Soviet Union) were in cahoots to elect Trump, during a Oct. 31 interview on MSNBC.

A handful of Democratic lawmakers have outright called for the FBI director to resign or be fired.

"This is not fake news. Intelligence officials are hiding connections to the Russian government. There is no question," then-Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid said in a Dec. 10 interview on MSNBC. "Comey knew and deliberately kept this info a secret," he said.

The MSNBC host asked Reid if Comey should resign. "Of course, yes," Reid replied.

Comey's decision to publicly reopen the Clinton investigation drove Rep. Steve Cohen (D-Tenn.) to also demand the FBI director resign.

"I called on FBI Director James Comey to resign his position after his recent communication with members of Congress regarding the bureau's review of emails potentially related to Hillary Clinton's personal email server," Cohen wrote in a Nov. 3 op-ed published in The Hill.

So great was Democratic animus towards Comey that several lawmakers walked out on the FBI director during a closed-door briefing on Russian hacking in the 2016 election, open to all members of the House, according to CBS News.

Two of those Democratic lawmakers blasted Comey to reporters outside the meeting.

"The FBI director has no credibility," said Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.), according to CBS.

"My confidence in the FBI director's ability to lead this agency has been shaken," said Rep. Hank Johnson (D-Ga.).

Hillary herself still blames Comey for losing the election, despite the fact she didn't campaign in Wisconsin and Michigan, had poor polling numbers as far back as the summer, and couldn't inspire younger and Hispanic voters to come out for her in strong numbers — among other faults.

"If the election had been on October 27, I would be your president," she told a women's conference moderated by CNN's Christiane Amanpour on May 2. "It wasn't a perfect campaign, but I was on the way to winning until a combination of Comey's letter and Russian WikiLeaks. The reason why I believe we lost were the intervening events in the last 10 days."

When Trump took action to remove him from his position Tuesday, many of the same Democrats, including Schumer, who had blasted Comey or demanded he resign made a swift about-face to criticize Trump.

"Donald Trump should follow his FBI Director out the door #nocredibility," tweeted Rep. Maxine Waters.

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

I watch CNN and so far I haven't seen one commentator who has said that Obama was a worse president than Trump is now.

And you won't bc you are watching CNN.

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

It's not my fault if he's committed faux pas after faux pas, including blatant lying, to the extent that there is now strong doubt throughout the western world that America is capable of being the leader.

Quote me Trump's lies and I'll quote you Obama's lies, Hillary's too.

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

No, I've never lived and worked in the US, but being a keen supporter of the US, I keep as close a watch on what'sgoing on as I can. Perhaps the difference between us is that I'm in a position to make comparisons, where you've had the same system all of your life, and know no different.

You are in a position to observe but it's not like living here and paying your taxes to this government. You may have a change of heart if it were your country.

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

But, there's one very important point about the USA and it's president, a point that can only be shared by several other people in the world, and it's this.

The USA is recognised by all as the leader of the Western World, whatever happens in the USA, financially, politically and militarily, is watched very carefully  by the communist world, which is quick to respond in it's own way. Pesident Trump, IMHO, has projected himself as a bufoon with no idea of diplomacy or government, which, again IMHO, will/is providing opportunities for others to capitalise on what they see as weakness. One example could be China's incursion into the South China Sea, granted, commenced under Obama. Another could be China's fence sitting over North Korea; another, North Korea's continual provocation without any real  reaction. And there are more.

Can you tell me about an American president who had all the qualities you list? I think Reagan but only in the rear view mirror. The same crybabies hated Reagan too while he was in office. The whole Hollywood/Liberal media cabal. 

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Some of the points that I've made in this post, I submit, are arguable, you may see it differently, but others are matters of fact (his lack of diplomacy, lies, unstable administration staff, nepotism etc). If President Trump is to gain the credibility he badly needs to be the leader of the Free World, he needs to listen to experienced politicians,diplomats and militarists and act on their advice, not on that of his White House clique, IMHO!

Again, list these lies let's debate it if they were important to you. And I'll show you the last admin was no better at the 'image' put- on. You saw Obama and thought "My Hero" and certainly you know everyone has their own views. Trump has credibility that's why your friends in the press are working so hard to prove that Hillary lost the election bc Trump made a deal with Russia. It's a manufactured narrative, or maybe a noble lie? Good Luck with that, nothing will come of it. Trump's White House is infected with holdovers from the last admin. He's under attack from that White House clique. 









Edited by toyomotor - 04 Aug 2017 at 17:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2017 at 09:06
Vanuatu

You are a self confessed supporter of Donald Trump, while I have admitted not liking the person, not the position.

I don't know how much you know about the Australian political system, but it is vastly different in many aspects.

Just a quick explanation, and I'll stay with the Federal system, to get us started.
  • The political bosses of government departments are called Ministers. They come to their positions after first being elected to parliament by the people. Obviously they belong to the winning party, which becomes the government. They are appointed to their position by the Prime Minister who can fire them at will. On Election Day, or shortly thereafter, when the winners are named, if they are from the other politcal party/parties, they're automatically OUT, along with their personal staff. They may still be elected members, but of the opposition party.
  • Each government department has a professional public servant who is the permanent boss. He/she runs the department, implementing the government's policies.
  • These permanent heads are normally (and nominally) apolitical, that is they serve whoever is the boss at the time, no ructions.
  • Unusual for new government to fire one of them.
  • So, unlike the US system, there are no leftovers from the previous administration who can white ant the new Prime Minister and his administration. My point is/was that President Trump apparently fired people that he had appointed. If I misunderstood the situation, so be it, I'm sorry.
Quote You may be looking at different sources but they are all on the same team, your team "Trump must fail."

No, I'm not on a "team", I have no axe to grind with most of Trumps published policies, after all, he must do what he thinks is best for the USA.

What I criticise, often, is his public persona. Brash, crude, arrogant, ignorant, IMO, and I could go on.

Quote  The press has reached a level of treason by attacking Trump to the exclusion of all else.

If that were true, I would find it extraordinary! IMO, Australia has an almost obsession with America, and we hear about a lot of what goes on, even down to robberies and road accidents. I've not yet read favourable comments about the man. Why would that be? Where are the favourable reports?

Quote 1. Reports are pure fabrication. The Russia distraction is a side show. Reasonable people would have expected evidence. Obama plainly said before the election, believing that Trump had no chance to win, that it was virtually impossible to rig the US election.

 and

Quote 2. Yet he knew about Russian hacking and wasn't worried, so I wonder how can reasonable people take it seriously?

Was Obama just being an idiot and didn't care what Russia did since he was on the way out?

1. Which reports are fabrication, Trump jnr. didn't meet a Russian lawyer with ties to the Inteligence Agency?

Isn't the fact that Trump jnr admitted meeting the Russians evidence of something going on?

Was the timing Trump Snr's sacking of Comey purely coincidental?

It's early days yet, the Grand Jury is yet to hear evidence.

and

2. So, Russia was hacking into the US Electoral System?
This seems to argue against point 1. above!
I would be gobsmacked if the US Intelligence Agencies would turn a blind eye to Russia hacking into a very major US computer system.

Quote When you repeat things that they say on CNN it sounds it sounds like you are coming from another planet.

Really? Is CNN not a reputable news outlet, you tell me, I suppose you can prove that it's not?

Quote I guess you weren't following pre-election Comey. There are hundreds of articles noting the big flip flop.

Are you referring to the Hilary Clinton email thing? If so, yes I knew about it and I suspected foul play to undermine her campaign prospects.

The comments you attribute to various politicians, I'll respond to this way-I don't know of the people you mention, but, politicians are a slippery bunch, and are notorious for saying whatever they think will gain them popularity at any given time. Whether or not their comments are;
a. unbiased;
b. truthful; and
c. accurate,

I have no way of knowing, and so will make no comment.


Quote Quote me Trump's lies and I'll quote you Obama's lies, Hillary's too.

You will have noted, I hope, that the lies I've quoted from the many reports, are of stupid inconsequential things, like, "My crowd was bigger than your crowd", and many, many more. None of them, as far as I'm aware (and I'll come back to this),  have been of earth shattering importance, and only serve to belittle the man. Now, the one outstanding matter of great importance where he may have/not lied is the Russian thing. Yet to be determined by the Grand Jury and I'd trust it's decision.

Whether or not Obama or Clinton told lies is not the question under discussion, it's the stupid lies, blatant lies, told by the President.

Quote Again, list these lies let's debate it if they were important to you. And I'll show you the last admin was no better at the 'image' put- on. You saw Obama and thought "My Hero" and certainly you know everyone has their own views. Trump has credibility that's why your friends in the press are working so hard to prove that Hillary lost the election bc Trump made a deal with Russia. It's a manufactured narrative, or maybe a noble lie? Good Luck with that, nothing will come of it. Trump's White House is infected with holdovers from the last admin. He's under attack from that White House clique.

Now come on! You can't stand there with your bare face hanging out and not admit that President Trump hasn't told stupid lies, such as that which I've quoted. And quite a few of them.

Quote  Trump's White House is infected with holdovers from the last admin. He's under attack from that White House clique.

OK. I've explained our system. Having leftovers from the previous administration with old loyalties still in the White House in untenable. Finding that out, I would fully support a wholesale cleanout, and the staff replaced with people loyal to Trump only. But a TOTAL cleanout is the only answer or they'll white ant him forever.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2017 at 02:02
Vanuatu, I would say that all those democrats who you mentioned as previously criticizing Comey, seemed like a pretty good endorsement of Comey to me.  Pelosi, Schumer, etc, etc, are fairly radical.  They are playing partisan games, and if Donald Trump is dismissing Comey because he agrees with them.  Well, that says something.  And if he is dismissing Comey because of some other reason, that says something too.  He can use their partisan criticism of Comey as an excuse, but everybody recognizes that that is what it is.

Saw William Kristol on TV yesterday, a conservative commentator who said that Trump drew an inside- straight in the election.  In given a choice between Trump or Obama by the interviewer, he choose reluctantly Obama, he would not have liked it, and he thought that Obama has been bad on foreign policy, and mediocre (my word) on domestic.  But, he felt that the possible outcomes of an Obama 3rd term, where not _that_ good but relatively predictable and, you might say, the damage is already done.  He didn't say it in so many words, but the possible outcomes are a lot more unpredictable and potentially drastic and damaging. 

How did you like that 'transcript' of Trump and the President of Mexico, and Trump and the Prime Minister of Australia?  I believe David Brooks said they should not have been leaked, and it probably shouldn't, but when you have a nightmare boss, it is easy to want to stick it to him.  And when that boss is Trump, it is exceptionally easy to make him look bad.  He does it for you, all you have to do is publicize it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 15:45
You are talking about the leadership (and former) of the democrat party, Pelosi , Shumer are radical so goes most of the party.

Let's see Trump, is dismissing Comey bc he agrees with dem party leadership? Meaning the democrats? Yes hence the gotcha when Trump actually fires the man that democrats have said should be resigning. 

And what does that say? I'm asking.

Releasing the transcript of Trump's conversations with world leaders is treason. Trump is not responsible for the leaks. One works for the president for the prestige of the job, I don't know how you get to -he's a nightmare boss therefore the leaks are happening. 






Edited by Vanuatu - 08 Aug 2017 at 16:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 16:08
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu

You are a self confessed supporter of Donald Trump, while I have admitted not liking the person, not the position.

So what? I don't have to justify my political leanings to you or anyone, I'll will explain to someone being reasonable. Self confessed indeed, what BS! Trying to spin it into a crime! LOL


Quote You may be looking at different sources but they are all on the same team, your team "Trump must fail."

No, I'm not on a "team", I have no axe to grind with most of Trumps published policies, after all, he must do what he thinks is best for the USA.

What I criticise, often, is his public persona. Brash, crude, arrogant, ignorant, IMO, and I could go on.

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote  The press has reached a level of treason by attacking Trump to the exclusion of all else.

If that were true, I would find it extraordinary! IMO, Australia has an almost obsession with America, and we hear about a lot of what goes on, even down to robberies and road accidents. I've not yet read favourable comments about the man. Why would that be? Where are the favourable reports?

Why don't you use your computer?

Quote 1. Reports are pure fabrication. The Russia distraction is a side show. Reasonable people would have expected evidence. Obama plainly said before the election, believing that Trump had no chance to win, that it was virtually impossible to rig the US election.

 and

Quote 2. Yet he knew about Russian hacking and wasn't worried, so I wonder how can reasonable people take it seriously?

Was Obama just being an idiot and didn't care what Russia did since he was on the way out?

1. Which reports are fabrication, Trump jnr. didn't meet a Russian lawyer with ties to the Inteligence Agency?

Isn't the fact that Trump jnr admitted meeting the Russians evidence of something going on?

Was the timing Trump Snr's sacking of Comey purely coincidental?

It's early days yet, the Grand Jury is yet to hear evidence.

and

2. So, Russia was hacking into the US Electoral System?
This seems to argue against point 1. above!
I would be gobsmacked if the US Intelligence Agencies would turn a blind eye to Russia hacking into a very major US computer system.

Quote When you repeat things that they say on CNN it sounds it sounds like you are coming from another planet.

Really? Is CNN not a reputable news outlet, you tell me, I suppose you can prove that it's not?

Quote I guess you weren't following pre-election Comey. There are hundreds of articles noting the big flip flop.

Are you referring to the Hilary Clinton email thing? If so, yes I knew about it and I suspected foul play to undermine her campaign prospects.

The comments you attribute to various politicians, I'll respond to this way-I don't know of the people you mention, but, politicians are a slippery bunch, and are notorious for saying whatever they think will gain them popularity at any given time. Whether or not their comments are;
a. unbiased;
b. truthful; and
c. accurate,

I have no way of knowing, and so will make no comment.


Quote Quote me Trump's lies and I'll quote you Obama's lies, Hillary's too.

You will have noted, I hope, that the lies I've quoted from the many reports, are of stupid inconsequential things, like, "My crowd was bigger than your crowd", and many, many more. None of them, as far as I'm aware (and I'll come back to this),  have been of earth shattering importance, and only serve to belittle the man. Now, the one outstanding matter of great importance where he may have/not lied is the Russian thing. Yet to be determined by the Grand Jury and I'd trust it's decision.

Whether or not Obama or Clinton told lies is not the question under discussion, it's the stupid lies, blatant lies, told by the President.

Quote Again, list these lies let's debate it if they were important to you. And I'll show you the last admin was no better at the 'image' put- on. You saw Obama and thought "My Hero" and certainly you know everyone has their own views. Trump has credibility that's why your friends in the press are working so hard to prove that Hillary lost the election bc Trump made a deal with Russia. It's a manufactured narrative, or maybe a noble lie? Good Luck with that, nothing will come of it. Trump's White House is infected with holdovers from the last admin. He's under attack from that White House clique.

Now come on! You can't stand there with your bare face hanging out and not admit that President Trump hasn't told stupid lies, such as that which I've quoted. And quite a few of them.

Quote  Trump's White House is infected with holdovers from the last admin. He's under attack from that White House clique.

OK. I've explained our system. Having leftovers from the previous administration with old loyalties still in the White House in untenable. Finding that out, I would fully support a wholesale cleanout, and the staff replaced with people loyal to Trump only. But a TOTAL cleanout is the only answer or they'll white ant him forever.


[/QUOTE]

No, meeting with a Russian is not evidence of anything. You don't listen and won't accept the facts, democrats including Obama had dealings with the Russians. If you are not going to acknowledge that and wait for some evidence then just shelf the Russian issue, you are not being honest. There is no evidence. 

I don't accept CNN as reputable as far as politics is concerned. You believe what you like, just don't expect CNN to be regarded as reliable or unbiased.

I didn't say Russia hacked our system, they obviously got Hillary's emails.
I stated that OBAMA , when questioned said that it was virtually impossible to hack our system. No one is sure what happened at least not at my level of clearance.

I don't care about "my crowd is bigger than your crowd" it's a joke!
I'm just glad that Hillary's serious lies didn't make it back into the oval office.


Edited by Vanuatu - 08 Aug 2017 at 16:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 23:48
The enemy of my enemy is my friend, but Donald Trump doesn't have friends, only loyal minions, and Comey wouldn't kiss his ring.  Of course, the democratic blasting of Comey for opening up the (new?) emails investigation (from Weiner's computer, you might say it was Weiner that screwed Hillary), was pure politics on the part of the democrats,  It ignored the complexities he was trying to juggle, and remember that the administration thought that the Hillary Clinton Campaign would be able to handle it.
If Comey had held it back, Trump would have whined if he had lost, of course Trump whined when he won too.  Nobody could ever accuse Trump of being a good winner, a good whiner yes, a good winner no.  But, the democrats made it all the easier for Trump to get rid of Comey.  It still was a pretty stupid thing to do, and the Senate has made it known that they wouldn't accept a Trump yes-man in the position.

What system are you talking about?  If Barack Obama was talking about the actual voting machines, he is probably correct that they are virtually impossible to hack.  But we have an open system, which means that it is open to citizens, but it is also open to other state actors in the world.  The American way of life, is a propagandistic system of two parties, tweedle dee and tweedle dum.  And since we are in a propagandistic system, we are short of common sensical faculties when coming into contact with the BS of another propagandistic system, aiming to influence us on one matter, con-Hillary, pro-Trump.  But as far as "hacking" is concerned, most of what the Russians did was probably not (computer) hacking, but propaganda using computers.  Of course, the Russians and the North Koreans and the Chinese and others are always trying to hack into our systems, governmental and business, with some success.  And usually we never hear about it.  And of course, there is the criminal element, which the Russians and others use when it is convenient.

Awhile back Trump said that no President has ever faced the persecution that he has.   Really?  Lincoln got a bullet in the head, after an unpopular war.  I guess Mr. Trump never bothered to look into it before he opened his mouth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2017 at 01:12
Quote So what? I don't have to justify my political leanings to you or anyone, I'll will explain to someone being reasonable. Self confessed indeed, what BS! Trying to spin it into a crime! LOL

No, not a crime. Methinks thou dost protest too much.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2017 at 05:05
"self confessed"???  It is a ridiculous term.  What does one confess?  a crime, a sin, I think Vanuatu is right to question this term.
toyomotor, methinks you shot your mouth off, that your reach was longer than your (conceptual) grasp.
I don't like Donald Trump or President Trump for that matter, but he is our President.  It is one thing for a foreigner to question what the heck he is doing, perfectly legitimate question.  It is another thing for an outsider to disparage the electoral decision of those who voted in an election, whichever way they voted.
It is one thing to try to convince them it was a bad decision (for they can do the opposite), it is another to try to guilt them into submission.  "Self-confessed" is at best a poor word choice, at worst it makes voters for Trump sound guilty, and if you think it does not then ask yourself what they have to confess?

Now I do hope that if Trump turns out to be mistake, I do hope that people will be able to admit that, eventually.  But, it is by no means clear that when the score is in, that he will be considered a mistake.  In fact, these things are complicated enough, that the administration will be debated by historians for years to come, and it will probably be 30, 40, 50 years before we begin to have a thorough historical assessment of what exactly happened.  Even then, the assessment will not be totally pro, or totally con.  Only President Nixon could go to China, without Nixon, Ronald Reagan could not have won the Cold War.

Look at the George W Bush administration, liberals who thought he was the devil incarnate, now don't find him so bad (compared to Trump), the Bush family does not get along with Trump, considering how Trump ripped into Jeb, I don't blame them.  And of course, that affects their acceptance in the media.  They put up with a lot of sh- from the media during their administration, and Trump reacts badly to everything.  They now appreciate that he (George W) put up with them.  Former administration officials are interviewed, the George W admin presenting the Republican position, the Bill Clinton admin presenting the democrat.  Obama officials are too close.  Bill Clinton is probably compared to Trump more than George W. Bush is.  Clinton was impeached, and the White House was run compartmentalized with perpetual scandal.  The Trump White House is doing the same thing.

Point is the assessment of a President does not depend just on his administration, but the society around him, the other presidents before and after him.  A new admin means that everything before gets re-assessed.

President Trump has appointed two to the labor board, and he has appointed one Supreme Court Justice, this will have a big effect.  The people he is appointing are qualified but are not darlings of the Democratic establishment.  This is a good influence, but the media probably will under-report it, except in their doom and gloom capacity.  Trump tweeted about the opposition leader in Venezuela, WSJ complimented him on it, and President Modero released him, at least for a time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2017 at 07:19
Franciscosan

Quote "self confessed"???  It is a ridiculous term.  What does one confess?  a crime, a sin, I think Vanuatu is right to question this term.
toyomotor, methinks you shot your mouth off, that your reach was longer than your (conceptual) grasp.

What you think is of no consequence. Look up the definition of the term, it's in frequent use, but as usual, you jump on the first bus that passes, especially when it provides an opportunity to have a go at me.

You've shown yourself to be an hypocrite  a*****e on more than on occasion, now, having lambasted Trump in previous posts, you water down your comments. I think an American saying, "mealy mouthed" is appropriate.




Edited by toyomotor - 09 Aug 2017 at 10:13
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2017 at 21:50
self-confessed

adjective [ before noun ]

 UK  /ˌself.kənˈfest/ US  /ˌself.kənˈfest/

admitting to having a characteristic that is considered to be bad or notacceptable:

New evidence from a self-confessed liar was not enough to justify a retrial.
a self-confessed gambler/alcoholic
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2017 at 00:00
toyomotor, it seems like what you said bothered Vanuatu, you further belittled her objection to what you said.  Do you disagree?  I mean, be honest with yourself, that seems to be how she responded.  And she is not responding to just nothing.  
You are not necessarily my favorite person either.  But I am not out to get you, sometimes maybe I am a little rough, but here you stepped into it all on your own.  I wish there was more traffic on the site, so we wouldn't bump into each other so much.  But here we are, trying to maintain things so it might grow.  You don't like my humor, you don't like other things.  Fine, I can live with that, and I hope you realize that I am just trying to do the same thing you are doing, support this site.  
I humbly suggest you apologize to Vanuatu, not in public, but in a PM.  Have some empathy, see how she really feels, maybe she will say it is no big deal, but she will appreciate you asking.  Of course, I will never know if you do this or not.  It even can be a non-apology apology, an inquiry into how she is doing, or just a friendly hello.  But you are not going to do it just because I say so (and you shouldn't) judge for yourself.
I really like the Japanese attitude towards apologizing.  Apologizing is not about recognizing fault, it is about smoothing things over, in a fender bender both sides are expected to apologize.  Americans hate that and have to be ordered by the courts to do so, because they interpret it as admitting fault.  But really it is like three people living close together, and accidentally poking each other with the elbows, stepping on toes, etc.  
For that matter I regret that sometimes we (you toyomotor and I) butt heads, I am not looking for it, but nevertheless it happens.  I think that sometimes you read me as being malicious, which is not the case.  I may joke with you and poke you playfully, but that is because I generally have good will towards you.  If you don't like it, I am sorry, I'll try to hold it to a minimum.  But that is separate from my suggestions concerning Vanuatu's response to your criticism.


Edited by franciscosan - 10 Aug 2017 at 00:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2017 at 01:02
V

You've chosen a negative definition of the term, which I didn't intend.

Quote

Definition of self–confessed

  1. :  openly acknowledged by oneself :  avowed

self–confessedly

play\-ˈfe-səd-lē, -ˈfest-lē\ adverb

Instead of "self confessed", if it offends you, try admittedly, or admitted, or self described.

I think you should know by now that I wouldn't insult you like that.

If you were offended, I apologise, but I didn't mean the definition that you ascribed to the term.

As for Franciscosan butting his nose in, I haven't bothered to read his piffle.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2017 at 02:55
I was about to say, don't apologize. If you were aware of the more common usage, -know it's what I would expect you to say that bc you hate Trump. You think he is a disaster not in policy but in sound bytes. And you can espouse that POV. 
I have to argue.

fransicosan also think anyone who supports Trump is of a 'type'. Don't you my friend? And thanks for pointing out that I'm a self_ confessed_ confessor. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2017 at 21:04
Hmmmm.

There are two types of people,
those who think there are two types of people,
and those who don't. 
I would like to think that I am the later type.
I would like to think that, but it isn't always true....:(

No, as far as "type" is concerned, some people supported Trump out of a careful consideration of who was the lesser of two evils, just like some people supported Hillary out of a careful consideration of the lesser of two evils.  If you had said five years ago, that I would have voted for Hillary, I probably would have dismissed what you were saying.  Of course, "support" can be a relative term, it can mean you voted for someone, but doesn't necessarily mean you endorse all/any of their policies or other actions.

Out of curiosity, Vanuatu, are you part of Trump's twitter sphere?  Are you on twitter at all?  Just curious.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2017 at 05:05
I did get a Twitter account but lost interest early on. Also found it creepy how they inject people into your space and call them 'followers' it's too L.Ron Hubbard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2017 at 01:54
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

I was about to say, don't apologize. If you were aware of the more common usage, -know it's what I would expect you to say that bc you hate Trump. You think he is a disaster not in policy but in sound bytes. And you can espouse that POV. 
I have to argue.

fransicosan also think anyone who supports Trump is of a 'type'. Don't you my friend? And thanks for pointing out that I'm a self_ confessed_ confessor. 

As I've written previously, our opinions differ on your President, mine mainly on his personality, rather than his policies which I admit to knowing little about.

Regardless of that, I respect your right to express your opinion and, unlike some, don't classify you as any sort or type.

For a final clarfication, what I meant was that you've indicated by your posts that you support Trump over say Clinton, or his predecessor, Obama. No more, no less!

Fight on!   Wink


Edited by toyomotor - 15 Aug 2017 at 08:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2017 at 03:54
Gratitude Smile
I know where you stand and I like to fight about it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2017 at 08:22
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Gratitude Smile
I know where you stand and I like to fight about it. 

Whatever happened to Great Minds Think Alike?   Wink
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2017 at 20:43
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Gratitude Smile
I know where you stand and I like to fight about it. 

Whatever happened to Great Minds Think Alike?   Wink

It is the same thinking it just comes in various packages. Like Vegemite.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2017 at 23:25
It has been painful watching President Trump the last few days.

I had a friend who used to work at a gas station on the graveyard shift, I would go hang out with him.
and read the front page of the Wall Street Journal.

Once there was an article about a guy who was sitting on his front porch and drinking.
He decided to clean his .22 and shot himself in the foot, apparently he didn't think it
was significant enough to bother with, so he decided to clean his .38, and yes, shot himself
in the foot, which he ignored (for he was busy drinking), and so he decided to clean his
.45 (or was it a 9 mm?), and yes, you guessed it, shot himself in the foot, by this time
he decided he had better go to the hospital.

I am just wondering when the emergency personnel are going to show up, to extract Donald
from a situation of his own creation.

President Trump said something like 'there are nice people on both sides.'  I think that is the opposite, on both sides, one has a mob, and mobs are ugly.  In a mob situation, assault should not be tolerated, because it can lead to murder.  Now in the court of public opinion, the one that goes to the greatest extreme, looses, because if society doesn't judge them the looser, there is an incentive to go further.  Now it may be the case that one can have a peaceful protest and counterprotest, and in that case, things are organized enough that you don't have a mob mentality, it is not just a mass of people.  But in Charlottesville, VA, that was not the case.

President Trump seems to want to be fair to "both" sides.  Problem is that radicals of any stripe will appeal to democracy and fairness in order to get elected and once in power, will implement their authoritarian state, whether it is Weimar Germany or Revolutionary Iran or wherever else.  radicals are perfectly willing to be treated "fairly," but those ideas don't necessarily apply to others in their minds.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2017 at 03:29
Trump said there were bad actors on both sides and that's true. Including ANTIFA the anti-fascists. He also said that it wasn't only white supremacists who showed up to protest. Pretty shocking, right?

Where was your outrage over the Berkeley riots? You seem to give leftists violence a pass bc they are 'frustrated' so who isn't frustrated?


Edited by toyomotor - 18 Aug 2017 at 04:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2017 at 04:29
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Trump said there were bad actors on both sides and that's true. Including ANTIFA the anti-fascists. He also said that it wasn't only white supremacists who showed up to protest. Pretty shocking, right?

Where was your outrage over the Berkeley riots? You seem to give leftists violence a pass bc they are 'frustrated' so who isn't frustrated?
(Added word "are" after they.)

There were two distinct groups involved in the eventual fracas. Regardless of their opposing views, violence is not the answer.

Whether or not the President realised what he said in the first instance, where he's now accused of supporting white supremacists, is a moot point. He all too often speaks "off the cuff" without a lot of consideration of what is hidden in his words, which his opponents are all too ready to jump all over.

Instead of focusing on Trump's utterences, the public should concentrate on the escalation of violence in communities, and why community standards are deteriorating so rapidly.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2017 at 16:01
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Trump said there were bad actors on both sides and that's true. Including ANTIFA the anti-fascists. He also said that it wasn't only white supremacists who showed up to protest. Pretty shocking, right?

Where was your outrage over the Berkeley riots? You seem to give leftists violence a pass bc they are 'frustrated' so who isn't frustrated?
(Added word "are" after they.)

There were two distinct groups involved in the eventual fracas. Regardless of their opposing views, violence is not the answer.

Whether or not the President realised what he said in the first instance, where he's now accused of supporting white supremacists, is a moot point. He all too often speaks "off the cuff" without a lot of consideration of what is hidden in his words, which his opponents are all too ready to jump all over.

Instead of focusing on Trump's utterences, the public should concentrate on the escalation of violence in communities, and why community standards are deteriorating so rapidly.


It wasn't off the cuff and dare I say YOU don't know much about which groups were there especially considering your choices for news and information.

Trump was criticized for WAITING a day to comment. He waited bc unlike Obama, who came out on four occasions (Cambridge professor, Trayvon Martin, Ferguson and Dallas police shootings) and shot his mouth off  and offended lots of people, Trump got some facts before shouting "blame whitey!"

Thanks for reminding us that violence isn't the answer. Where is your outrage over leftist destroying property and suppressing free speech?

Would the Australian government ever tolerate destruction of public property? 
Not even the messiah knows how to handle the apocalypse.

Cambridge police demand apology from Barack Obama over 'stupid' comments


-How about it Obama? Lets wait a day. Many see Obama has made up his mind on day one.
 
"But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon. If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon. I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves and we will get to the bottom of exactly what happened.”

From the Natl Association of Police Organizations

In November 2013, Obama nominated Debo Adegbile to a position in the Department of Justice. Opponents of the move quickly seized upon Adegbile's having signed a friend-of-the-court petition on behalf of Mumia Abu-Jamal, who was convicted of the murder of a Philadelphia police officer in 1982. The Senate ultimately blocked that nomination, with opposition focused on the Abu-Jamal filing.

But it was the police-involved deaths of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., and Eric Garner on Staten Island in 2014 that kicked the Obama-hates-cops sentiment into overdrive. Brown's death prompted Obama to release a statement offering his condolences to the family and calling for calm. The failure of grand juries to indict the officers involved in either man's death gave rise to the politically contentious Black Lives Matter movement — which itself was blamed for the murders of two police officers in a patrol car in New York that December.

"There has been no response, no condemnation when Black Lives Matter protests turn violent. There was no outrage when two St. Louis County police officers were shot by a Ferguson protester who was at a Black Lives Matter protest. There is no demand for accountability from the movement when members support violence towards police or even act on those calls for violence," NAPO’s statement reads.

This speaks directly to Johnson’s broader critique of Obama’s response to violence against police, but it seems to get some details wrong. As noted above, Obama has spoken out against violent protests in Ferguson and Baltimore, though no officers died in either of those protests. After two officers were shot in Ferguson in March of 2015, Obama issued this response on Twitter: "Violence against police is unacceptable. Our prayers are with the officers in MO. Path to justice is one all of us must travel together."

In response to a question after the Dallas attack about the tactics of Black Lives Matter protesters, Obama said he did not think it was fair to blame the entire movement for the statements of some of its members.

"Now, in a movement like Black Lives Matter, there’s always going to be some folks who say things that are stupid, or imprudent, or overgeneralized, or harsh.  And I don't think that you can hold well-meaning activists who are doing the right thing and peacefully protesting responsible for everything that is uttered at a protest site," Obama said.

Johnson also said that former Attorney General Eric Holder had undermined police officers in his response to the non-indictment of Darren Wilson, who shot and killed Brown in Ferguson.  Holder had said that he wanted lower standards of proof for civil rights crimes, like the one the Department of Justice had considered charging Wilson with.

But this is tangentially related to the question of how Obama responded to violence against police.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/jul/12/william-johnson/law-enforcement-lobbyist-says-pro-police-speech-ma/



The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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