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Trump and the domestic arena

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franciscosan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2017 at 22:40
I think the assumption is that when a protester murders a police officer, the protester is an outlier and not representative of the movement, whereas when a police officer kills its considered as representative of the the organization.  That is the assumption.  Part of that is based on the fact that protesters are only self-identified as part of a movement, there is not necessarily any organization of the movement, nor any standards or qualifications or for that matter, sometimes, no statement of principles.  Whereas, with a police department, there is quite a bit of standards, qualifications and so forth.  So, it is assumed that when there is an incident between police and civilians, that the police as a whole must be "in on it."

Usually, there is a very coherent logic behind the police officers' account and what 'went down,' describing how and why they reacted that way.  The protesters' perspective is focused on the end result, and maybe what happened immediately before the end result.  Usually there is some kind of aggressive response on the part of the individual, either fight or flight, to which the police are responding after the incidence has started.  Once the incident is started, it is probably pretty hard for either side to step outside their 'respective' roles in the incident.

It does not help that the mainstream media is not exactly the best reporter on such incidents.  It is not merely that the media is liberal, although there is that too.  It is to a great extent that the mainstream media is simplistic, looking for sound bites and headlines, and a 'good guy/bad guy' perspective, whereas the police and the legal system have intricate descriptions of what exactly happened, why each people responded the way they did, not only legal distinctions, but psychological and just even who knew what, when.  Conservative media may have a pro-police bias, but really if you think about it, the kind of taking an issue, milling over, and discussing in a talk radio format, does allow the ins and outs to be explored more thoroughly, as does newspaper commentators who are often conservative (often in an intellectual way) also.

Part of the 'good guy vs. bad guy' perspective can be taking the view of the 'underdog,' which in race relations means being on the sides of blacks or hispanics.  It does not necessarily mean taking the side of all minorities, just those that are perceived as 'disadvantaged.'  Try arguing for minority scholarships for Malaysian, Bangladeshi or Philippinos and I doubt you would get anywhere in U.S. universities.  And despite what you see on the TV, most poverty in the United States, is white, rural, and out of sight, out of mind.  That is a big part of Donald Trump's appeal, is that he paid attention to a 'demographic' that has been largely passed over in the United States, and he was rewarded by the vote for that.  He deserves credit for that, although i am not sure whether he is temperamentally suited to follow through.  In other words, he insults everybody, and hasn't been able work with anybody, in his own party or otherwise.  This is not a good thing, he has in a way, identified a problem, and it would be nice if he could come up with some sort of a solution for the whole of the United States. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2017 at 02:56
Vanuatu
Do you accept the New York Tmes as a fair reporter of current events in the USA, especially in relation to your President?

I found this clip today, and I thought it applied perfectly to you.

Quote

Trump’s Bad Week? To Supporters, It Went Just Fine

By SABRINA TAVERNISE 

It was a week of turmoil, but it seemed to prove an immutable rule of this presidency: People see what they want to see, even if others see something very different.   https://www.nytimes.com/    Saturday August 19 2017  


I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2017 at 15:11
It's not a new phenomenon, newspapers have political leanings and so does broadcast news & radio.

It didn't start with this election. Some British papers may be more honest about US than we are about ourselves & vice versa.

NY Times has always been in a Trump must Fail mode.

In the quote it's the Trump supporters who are seeing things that are not there.

Among many conservatives and Trump supporters it's the left who sees things that are not there. 

About right? 
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2017 at 01:18
toyomotor,
The slogan of the New York Times is, "All the News Fit to Print."  
I prefer thinking of it as, "All the News Printed to Fit."

Now understand that I believe everyone is biased one way or the other on probably about everything, not necessarily on a left/right or conservative/liberal split, but in some fashion or other, it is not a question of finding a bias free media, but rather of understanding what an outlet's bias is, in general, and on specific issues.  "Balance" is not a matter of paying attention to any one outlet, but of playing with different media to try to figure out what exactly happened.  Furthermore, it may be a matter that less is more and more is less, one can get overwhelmed by detail, or in other words, baffled by the bulls---.

One should be aware that a lot of the press on Donald Trump is a matter of "Schadenfreude" or a sickening kind of joy, in seeing (or anticipating) Donald Trump's failure.  New York and certain people from it have had more time to get sick of Trump than the rest of population has.  More people in New York hate him and want him to fail then anywhere else in the Earth.  That shows how lovable he is, but it also says what "cosmopolitan" New Yorkers and the paper they read think about him, and propagate about him.  And I guess that is what I am trying to say, it is propaganda, which doesn't mean it is false, but it does mean it is skewed.  And of all things, "don't believe the hype."

I don't watch RT, (Russia Today?) because that is all it is, Russian propaganda, watching it I cannot tell what exactly is the axe they are trying to grind, but I know it is there, so I avoid it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2017 at 02:48
OK, I accept what you both have written, so give me the names of some reliable, unbiased news sources please.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2017 at 03:32
As far as I am concerned, there is no such thing as an unbiased news source, so either you choose a source you agree with (or think you agree with) so you get your views (your bias) confirmed, or you choose source(s) that run counter to your views, and hope that they give you new insights.

As I have done before, I would suggest looking at commentators David Brooks and Charles (?) Krauthammer.  Both are on the "more" conservative, intellectual side of the debate.  Shields and Brooks is a weekly Friday night commentary on PBS (Public television), Brooks is the _more_ conservative, and Shields is the _more_ liberal perspective.  But all three don't like Trump, for well thought out reasons, but what they say in general is well thought out, you learn _why_ they don't care for him, it is for what he does and what he doesn't do.  But, I also believe they will give him credit on things, when they feel it is warranted.  They are also commenting on what one might call the "phenomenon of Trump" commenting on how he reaches out to a primarily white rural blue collar 'class' which has been for a long time neglected.  I would also suggest the commentary page of the NYT or the WSJ. 

The local newspaper said that "Trump compared confederate generals to Washington and Jefferson." (founding fathers, US Presidents, slave owners).  No, not really.  Trump said 'if you start taking down statues of confederate generals, are you going to want to start taking down statues of Washington and Jefferson?'  So technically Trump compared the two, but the statement is very misleading, and is meant to be misleading, and inflammatory.  We could say that it conforms to the "letter of the law" of journalism, but not the "spirit of the law."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2017 at 08:28
franciscosan

Is there a possibility that I'll ever get a straight answer from you?

All I asked for was a few sources which are generally regarded in the US as being unbiased and accurate-no more, no less!
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2017 at 19:14
My niece asked for a unicorn, that doesn't mean they exist!

Or maybe in the land down under, amongst the marsupials and monotremes, there is a creature called an unbiased opinion???  If you want THE Answer get religion, otherwise you are in the same boat as the rest of us, trying to piece together a complete picture from the bits and pieces.  

I gave you an answer, Shields and Brooks, Charles Krauthammer, Wall Street Journal, have you checked those out???  You are like the man looking for his car keys under the street lamp, because the light is much better there!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 00:56
So, you're saying that in the USA, there's one accurate and unbiased news source?

Incredible, and quite frankly, Franky, unbelievable.






Edited by toyomotor - Yesterday at 01:04
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 02:29
No, I am saying there are _no_ completely unbiased and _no_ completely accurate source, _anywhere_ in the world, unless _you_ have something down under living with the monotremes and other living fossils. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 hours 33 minutes ago at 07:03
It's as close to true as it gets toyomotor.

Wall Street Journal is tough but fair to Trump, Krauthammer has a weekly column as does Thomas Sowell. The National Review is fair but also criticizes Trump.

I do think that the never Trump, liberal left media like CNN and MSNBC, Huffington Post and Politico are suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome. Why does Trump get two scoops of ice cream!
The Horror!


Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump is living every child's dream: More ice cream.

According to an extensive interview with TIME Magazine, Trump's White House staff has settled into Trump's routine and know his desires, sometimes before he does,
For example: Trump takes two scoops of ice cream with his chocolate cream pie, TIME reported, while everyone else around the table gets just one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8 hours 59 minutes ago at 09:37
Quote Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump is living every child's dream: More ice cream.
According to an extensive interview with TIME Magazine, Trump's White House staff has settled into Trump's routine and know his desires, sometimes before he does,
For example: Trump takes two scoops of ice cream with his chocolate cream pie, TIME reported, while everyone else around the table gets just one.
And this rates as news????

I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 46 minutes ago at 10:50
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump is living every child's dream: More ice cream.
According to an extensive interview with TIME Magazine, Trump's White House staff has settled into Trump's routine and know his desires, sometimes before he does,
For example: Trump takes two scoops of ice cream with his chocolate cream pie, TIME reported, while everyone else around the table gets just one.
And this rates as news????


It does when you hate Trump & work for CNN- Certainly Not News!

http://www.dailywire.com/news/16366/cnn-loses-it-again-trump-gets-2-scoops-ice-cream-joseph-curl#exit-modal
 

How Low Can CNN Go? Now It's Covering President Trump's Ice Cream Habits. Seriously.

"At the dessert course, he gets two scoops of vanilla ice cream with his chocolate cream pie, instead of the single scoop for everyone else."

In the Time magazine story, that was just one little detail. But for CNN, the network decided to do a special, stand-alone piece on "Ice Cream-Gate." Yes, this is what CNN now focuses on -- when it's not fabricating news out of whole cloth.

Of course, some took to Twitter to mock the network.

The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 30 minutes ago at 11:06
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:


The local newspaper said that "Trump compared confederate generals to Washington and Jefferson." (founding fathers, US Presidents, slave owners).  No, not really.  Trump said 'if you start taking down statues of confederate generals, are you going to want to start taking down statues of Washington and Jefferson?'  So technically Trump compared the two, but the statement is very misleading, and is meant to be misleading, and inflammatory.  We could say that it conforms to the "letter of the law" of journalism, but not the "spirit of the law."

Please clarify. What is misleading about Trump's statement?
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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