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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2017 at 21:50
OT  _try_ to keep domestic in the other thread, and foreign in this thread.  just a suggestion.  immigration and the international economy really could be either.

Can you be sunk by someone else, when you weren't seaworthy in the first place?  

I'm sure that Ted Cruz, whose father was insulted by Trump, was in the Freedom Caucus.  Of course the freedom caucus had its own reasons for opposing the plan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2017 at 00:28
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

And now he's been slapped down by the Republican Party, which refused to vote in his favour in relation to the abolition of Obama Care. But, Trump, being Trump, is blaming the Democrats. 

He was sunk by his own party.

Well I'm glad that you are back. You ever argue about sports? People get emotional and loud when comes to "their team" then go have a beer and complain about the politician they both dislike.

Franciscosan is right, I enjoy and it's not personal. 




Edited by Vanuatu - 26 Mar 2017 at 00:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 02:56
One should remember that the House and the Senate were elected too.  They are not there in order to make Donald Trump's agenda, but they have agendas of their own.  They are smart, intellectually and politically.  Nobody is willing to fall on their sword just to satisfy Trump's ego.  I would like to think that maybe Trump learned that politeness counts for something politically.  I would like to, but I doubt it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 04:52

THE White House has denied claims US President Donald Trump has taken an extraordinary step to recoup the “vast sums of money” he believes other countries owe the United States.

According to The Sunday Times, the President handed German Chancellor Angela Merkel a bill for more than $490 billion which he believes his country has been short-changed over military alliance NATO.

The invoice was reportedly presented at the leaders’ meeting last week, in which the President apparently refused to shake Ms Merkel’s hand during a staged photo opportunity.

There used to be a TV ad in Australia for Sun Screen cream. The line was,"It keeps on keeping on."

Reminds me of someone. No names mind you.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 12:41
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

One should remember that the House and the Senate were elected too.  They are not there in order to make Donald Trump's agenda, but they have agendas of their own.  They are smart, intellectually and politically.  Nobody is willing to fall on their sword just to satisfy Trump's ego.  I would like to think that maybe Trump learned that politeness counts for something politically.  I would like to, but I doubt it.

One should remember that this is a domestic topic. Smile


Edited by Vanuatu - 27 Mar 2017 at 12:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 13:47
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

THE White House has denied claims US President Donald Trump has taken an extraordinary step to recoup the “vast sums of money” he believes other countries owe the United States.

According to The Sunday Times, the President handed German Chancellor Angela Merkel a bill for more than $490 billion which he believes his country has been short-changed over military alliance NATO.

The invoice was reportedly presented at the leaders’ meeting last week, in which the President apparently refused to shake Ms Merkel’s hand during a staged photo opportunity.

There used to be a TV ad in Australia for Sun Screen cream. The line was,"It keeps on keeping on."

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Thanks for posting! I had no idea, I hope we actually collect in USD not Euros Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 21:51
Do they have herds of cats down in Australia too?  I don't know about the bill presented to Angela Merkel, I am not saying it's not true, it is hard to keep track of all three rings in this circus at the same time.  But if President Trump is presenting bogus bills to other world leaders, then shouldn't I suspect that my tax bill is bogus as well?  Of course, I have to pay my taxes, but in the world of Trump, the delusion that it *ought to be* fair, goes out the window.
Trump probably would like to collect for the Marshall Plan.  It is like the $1 I loaned to Joey in the third grade.  The 'sell by' date is way overdue.
Shady characters in High School would come up to you and say, "do you remember the $20 you borrowed from me two years ago?  You haven't paid me back yet."  But our shady character is the President.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2017 at 14:02
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Do they have herds of cats down in Australia too?  I don't know about the bill presented to Angela Merkel, I am not saying it's not true, it is hard to keep track of all three rings in this circus at the same time.  But if President Trump is presenting bogus bills to other world leaders, then shouldn't I suspect that my tax bill is bogus as well?  Of course, I have to pay my taxes, but in the world of Trump, the delusion that it *ought to be* fair, goes out the window.
Trump probably would like to collect for the Marshall Plan.  It is like the $1 I loaned to Joey in the third grade.  The 'sell by' date is way overdue.
Shady characters in High School would come up to you and say, "do you remember the $20 you borrowed from me two years ago?  You haven't paid me back yet."  But our shady character is the President.

I don't think it's true anymore than I believe that he refused to shake hands with A. Merkel.

Ever ask yourself why so many world leaders did -nothing- about the impending migrant/refugee crisis?

A conspiracy minded friend of mine (no it isn't me) believes that every muslim waits for the 'call' to walk away from the convenience store and start in on a massive jihad against all westerners and assimilated muslims.
Maybe that's when muslims plan on collecting from the great satan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2017 at 23:19

They did not "do nothing," what they did may have not been effective.  Or what they did may have been effective for different parts of issue.  And that in itself is a big question, how did one define or frame the issue?

Well if every muslim is going to wage jihad on all westerns and assimilated muslims, how exactly does that work?  Are assimilated muslims going on jihad against themselves?  I have heard of coupon fraud being done by muslims at convenience stores, maybe that is what they are collecting.  It would seem to be a case where crime pays, but just not very well.

I think that it was DH Lawrence that said that every Arab has a tribe.  I think that a lot of the problems that people associate with Islam and militancy, is more a matter of tribalism (often extended to the greater group).  If someone is in your tribe, they are right in your eyes, and cannot do wrong, and those who might oppose them are wrong and the curse of the Earth.  The United States has had a long history of rule of law.  President Trump seems to want to reverse that, "my country, right or wrong."  (But, right of course, because such an attitude does not allow for the existence of wrong, at least not on "our side of the fence."  Trump seems to want to start an American tribe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2017 at 02:06
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:


They did not "do nothing," what they did may have not been effective.  Or what they did may have been effective for different parts of issue.  And that in itself is a big question, how did one define or frame the issue?
Actually a great number of European states did exactly nothing. Germany and Sweden made it easier for European states to avoid agreements made at the EU level, regarding the number of refugees that each state would accept. 
Sweden and Germany's one time policy allowing all asylum seekers entry forced refugee camps in Turkey,  Macedonia and Greece (who were being subsidized)  to overflow because word was spread about the social services available in the UK and other countries who were accepting all refugees (2015). Of course it's very complicated but there was a comprehensive plan by August of 2015 from the EU that would have ensured a more humane and ordered diaspora. Now money pledged by the US and other countries is not being released to camps in Turkey because of political unrest. Turkey is absorbing refugee flows from Africa, Afganistan, Iraq, Syria, Palestine.. 



Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Well if every muslim is going to wage jihad on all westerns and assimilated muslims, how exactly does that work?  Are assimilated muslims going on jihad against themselves?
Well, is a jihadist and an assimilated muslim the same thing? In a way I suppose it is a suicide.

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I have heard of coupon fraud being done by muslims at convenience stores, maybe that is what they are collecting.  It would seem to be a case where crime pays, but just not very well.
Crime does pay. Those convenience store clerks rack up 10% of the best scratch ticket payoffs.


Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I think that it was DH Lawrence that said that every Arab has a tribe.  I think that a lot of the problems that people associate with Islam and militancy, is more a matter of tribalism (often extended to the greater group).  If someone is in your tribe, they are right in your eyes, and cannot do wrong, and those who might oppose them are wrong and the curse of the Earth.  The United States has had a long history of rule of law.  President Trump seems to want to reverse that, "my country, right or wrong."  (But, right of course, because such an attitude does not allow for the existence of wrong, at least not on "our side of the fence."  Trump seems to want to start an American tribe.
Rule of Law is the highest value of the EU, coincidentally. But slogans don't insure justice. Merkel did not discuss her refugee policy with the EU council. Why should a state in the US or France for that matter, accept 5000 refugees when they have a 5% unemployment rate and huge demands on the public assistance services already ? 
Trumps seems to want to maintain quality of life in the US. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 05:07
Vanuatu
Quote One should remember that this is a domestic topic. Smile

Nope, this is a foreign policy topic.

And, Donny, Donny, Donny, what have you done. You authorised a missile strike  against Syrian forces for using Biological Weapons. Good Stuff.
You've upset Putin. No so bad stuff.
Your missile strikes resulted in civilian deaths. Real Bad stuff.

I've posted in the past, that the only way to combat ISIS and rogue governments is to, unfortunately, put boots on the ground, and every righteous thinking government should help. In the realms of fairy tale, the UN might even get motivated to do something.

Missiles and bombs are all very well as long as you're delivering, not receiving. Ground troops have a better situational awareness, in real time, and therefore are in a position to minimise collateral damage, at the same time winning hearts and minds.

But, Donny, a start in the right direction, show these people that the USA is not to be messed with.






Edited by toyomotor - 08 Apr 2017 at 05:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 05:14
But, following on from that, President Trump has indicated that the USA is prepared to act against Pyong Yang if the missile tests continue. Again, good stuff.

Caution: Beijing has indicted some concern over US intervention in North Korea, and could more than likely line up on North Koreas side, unless the US treads warily.

It's been mentioned that China is in the best position to tame North Korea, but, again there  complications. North Korea is backed, plainly, by Russia.

A US led action against North Korea and Russia, with China as an ally is not likely.

A tripartite move against North Korea is not likely, so what is the answer?

Perhaps US intervention by shooting down the NK Missiles and not causing collateral damage, would send a warning.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2017 at 02:11
I don't have the perspective to know what all the ramifications are from the US cruise missile attack against the airbase from which Syria launched its gas attack against rebels.  Did President Trump do it as a warning against Assad, or was he showing that he wasn't a pawn of Russia, or was he just flexing his muscle on the homefront, showing that he was not President Obama.  Some (Republican) senators who wouldn't support Obama, supported Trump.  On the other hand, Obama wanted the Senate to do a declaration of war before he did anything.  One thing though, in the campaign Trump said he would raise support for the military, and not resort to the military as much.  It does not work that way.  If you have a tool in the toolbox, you tend to want to use it.  If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

There is no easy answer to North Korea.  "Act against" is a great phrase, but what it would actually mean is another question.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2017 at 09:52
franciscosan

Russia has responded to the US Missile attack by sending one of it's modern warships into the Mediterranean.

Russia is warning that the USA is one step away from provoking a war, as it, Russia, will defend Assad's administration.

Somehow, I don't think that President Trump will back down. Meanwhile the UN is tutt-tutting over the use of Nerve Gas.

I think you will know that, basically, I don't like Trump, but I support his stance in this incidence, and if that provokes a new Cold War, well, so be it.

It could well be that, in the not too distant future, the US Military could find itself very busy with the Syrian problem, as well as dealing with Kim Jong Un.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2017 at 10:32
Update:

The USS Carl Vinson Strike Force has been sent to the area of the Korean Peninsula in an attempt to deter any further North Korean missile Tests.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2017 at 00:35
I think the administration has done what it intended to do (a proportional response), and is not currently looking for more.  I tend to agree that either Russia was incompetent or complicit in allowing Assad to keep WMDs (weapons of mass destruction)=nerve gas.  But, I don't necessarily expect anything better from Russia.

We can't guarantee that any strike on North Korea's missile/nuclear facilities will be 100% successful.  It is spread out and dug in.  Which means a retaliatory strike on South Korea or Japan, might be the result of an American strike.  Like I said, no good options.  But what we can do, is cheer! and say, "hurray for our side!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2017 at 04:58
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I don't have the perspective to know what all the ramifications are from the US cruise missile attack against the airbase from which Syria launched its gas attack against rebels.  Did President Trump do it as a warning against Assad, or was he showing that he wasn't a pawn of Russia, or was he just flexing his muscle on the homefront, showing that he was not President Obama.  Some (Republican) senators who wouldn't support Obama, supported Trump.  On the other hand, Obama wanted the Senate to do a declaration of war before he did anything.  One thing though, in the campaign Trump said he would raise support for the military, and not resort to the military as much.  It does not work that way.  If you have a tool in the toolbox, you tend to want to use it.  If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

There is no easy answer to North Korea.  "Act against" is a great phrase, but what it would actually mean is another question.


Trump is saying -give us a reason like using nerve gas on civilians and US will interfere big league.
US told Russia what was about to happen. Putin has to posture for homeland pride, Putin isn't going to defend nerve gas. Putin offered Obama a way out of the Red Line warning by confiscating chemical weapons. He then proceeded to resupply the Assad regime.

Why is significant that some R who are supporting Trump didn't support Obama? Ever hear President Sisi of Egypt or King Abdullah of Jordan say that have trust in Obama? 

Was that before or after the Red Line warning?
 
China could make Kim Jong Un disappear, find a hardliner pro China replacement who doesn't threaten the world constantly. China won't stand for a democratic Korean peninsula.


Edited by Vanuatu - 10 Apr 2017 at 05:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2017 at 23:03
China does not want to get involved anymore than it has to, can you say refugees streaming over the border into China?  

I believe that President Obama wanted a Declaration of War from Congress, before doing anything.  President Trump did not require anything that far reaching, that may be the reason why some congressmen supported Trump, while they did not support Obama.  Of course, having pulled out of Iraq and substantially withdrawn from Afghanistan, Obama was more open to criticism if he got the US involved in Syria, an interesting question is whether he ever asked for a Declaration with an expectation of getting it, or was it a matter of him saying, "he tried, but didn't get the support."

The US and Russia have substantial conventional forces, so we don't ever have to worry about using WMDs in a regular conflict.  WMDs (weapons of Mass Destruction), are a poor man's equalizer, or attempt at an equalizer.  I don't think President Vladimir Putin particularly minds if an ally uses them, as long as they don't use them on someone who "counts."  Look at Stalin, if a tyrant can't kill off his own population, well then he is not much of a tyrant is he?  Putin must consider it par for the course.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 06:31
Looks like old DJT pulled a swifty on Kim Jong Un.

It was widely publicised that a US Battle Group with the USS Carl Vinson in the lead, was steaming to the Korean Peninsula, with the obvious intent of stopping any more NK nuclear missile tests.

Predictably, Kim reacted with all sorts of threats of retaliation, and it seems that he was preparing for US intervention. He had his knickers in a real twist.

But, the Carl Vinson Battle Group was 5000 odd miles from the Korean Peninsula, and making no moves north. It was engaged in training exercises with the Australian Navy, off Sumatra.

Well done Donald.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 16:34
Agree. And I have to wonder if the news of Navy movements weren't hand fed to overzealous reporters as a 'leak' meant to be kept quiet. 

Then the Orange One can truly be said to run circles around the press. Have to admit toyomotor, the man knows the medium.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2017 at 02:49
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Agree. And I have to wonder if the news of Navy movements weren't hand fed to overzealous reporters as a 'leak' meant to be kept quiet. 

Then the Orange One can truly be said to run circles around the press. Have to admit toyomotor, the man knows the medium.

But todays media reports that it was a "muck up" that the President simply "lost track" of where the battle Group was. Sounds possible, but I prefer to believe that he bluffed North Korea, and if I'm correct, good on him!

Perhaps I could grow to like this guy, but don't hold your breath just yet.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 hours 53 minutes ago at 23:58
He says one thing, and does another, sounds like incontinence to me.
But don't worry he will spin it to his advantage, it is all a grand plan
to destabilize the regime, question is whose regime is more destabilized.
If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then maybe you can baffle 
them with bull.  We are trying to get North Korea to be more stable, 
and less erratic.  _If_ it was a bluff, does such a bluff help the situation,
or does it just make it worse, next time we do deal with North Korea?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 hours 8 minutes ago at 02:43
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

If_ it was a bluff, does such a bluff help the situation,
or does it just make it worse, next time we do deal with North Korea?

Do a deal with North Korea, you're joking. The US is the driving force for more sanctions against North Korea.

I don't see any deals on the horizon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 hours 22 minutes ago at 03:29
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

He says one thing, and does another, sounds like incontinence to me.
Sounds like the last administration. Can you say Red line?

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

But don't worry he will spin it to his advantage, it is all a grand plan
to destabilize the regime, question is whose regime is more destabilized.
He should spin to the advantage of the US and allies. If it's truly a grand plan then no need to worry. although I admit it's a real nail biter.

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then maybe you can baffle 
them with bull.
Like democrat bull? Bill Clinton and Obama put these father/son loons in bed with a uranium pacifier. And Hillaroid Clinton Sec of State followed a ground breaking policy of 'strategic patience' how very brave.

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

 We are trying to get North Korea to be more stable, 
and less erratic.  _If_ it was a bluff, does such a bluff help the situation,
or does it just make it worse, next time we do deal with North Korea?
It's never gotten better with NoKo in my lifetime, yours? Are you worried that a bluff is going to make KJU like us less?
Less erratic? Already have regularly timed missile tests. What is stability for NoKo?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 hours 10 minutes ago at 03:41
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

If_ it was a bluff, does such a bluff help the situation,
or does it just make it worse, next time we do deal with North Korea?

Do a deal with North Korea, you're joking. The US is the driving force for more sanctions against North Korea.

I don't see any deals on the horizon.

Agree, don't expect this president to pander to fear mongers who threaten the world on a near daily basis.

If I were China knowing that the peninsula serves a purpose as buffer (described here many times) then I would have a glove on that buffer in case it ever needed to go away quickly. China could put KJU to sleep if it became conducive to their long term plans to do so.
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