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Trump, the 'important' issues

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2017 at 00:50
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I believe that the president should not target individual companies for putative measures.  I generally believe in a free market approach which means if labor costs too much in the United States, business will go elsewhere.  Of course, that process can be hampered by protectionist legislation.  But that will also mean that the products will be more expensive.  So you keep some jobs (not all jobs, just some union ones), in the coddling and special treatment of specific businesses by government, but you interfere in the labor market, and you interfere in the price of goods in the market.  In trying to control one aspect of the market, the cost in other respects goes up.  There is no such thing as a free lunch, although to those who resent inherited wealth, it might seem so.  There is a name for "too big to fail" and other practices, "corporate cronyism." that was prevalent with Obama.  Trump is different only in the sense that corporate cronyism is now a reward for doing what he wants, and he seems to want to penalize those who don't do what he wants.  Like I said, he is a bully, Obama could be a bully, but he was not vicious like Trump is.  I think that you, Vanuatu, do not take Trump's viciousness seriously.

No, I don't think he is joking, Donald Trump will take credit for anything positive whether he did it or not.  He will take credit for saving Christmas, although the biggest threat to Christmas is the rampant commercialism.

Trump didn't target individual companies, he told Carrier that they would be paying a higher tax if was elected. And Carrier knew corporations would be getting tax break from Trump so they stayed in the US. 
Saved some jobs. Of course that's not a good thing ask anyone at CNN.
I definitely do think he can be a vicious person. What can I say? Obama was nauseating, all that bowing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2017 at 01:39
Carrier got a sweetheart deal from the governor of Indiana who just 'happened' to be Mike Pence.  There was a bit of special treatment for Carrier.  There was a hell of a carrot especially crafted for Carrier, and their was a pretty big stick promised against them too.  Still, Carrier did move to Mexico, they just left some jobs (_some_ union jobs, not all) in Indiana, the non-union personnel got the shaft, at least that is my understanding.  Oh, I believe the governor promised them subsidies and tax breaks to stay.  This kind of special deal, was crafted especially for Carrier, using the Indiana governorship to do a deal for the incoming Trump-Pence administration.

If one believes that government is supposed to create a level playing field, then what Trump did for Carrier is 'highly irregular.'  Having state and Federal government 'tilt' the playing field will not in the long run, result in an unsound business model become sound.  Oh, let me revise that, if you have governmental interference, you can make a unsound business model appear sound, but then you can do that only if you rely on a model of government (like socialistic subsidies), that in its bed rock is itself unsound.  The question is, is it the role of government to decide who is too big/precious/influential to fail?  I guess so.  Of course, Trump wouldn't have any problem with this, 'conscious' wise, after all, the banks decided that he was 'worth more to them alive, then he was to them dead,' and bailed him out, when they should have let him go under from the dead weight of an airline, and two empty Atlantic City casinos.  He is doing the same, not out of the goodness of his heart, nor because it is good economic policy, but because now they owe him, or rather because now he owns them.  Something that appeals to his feudal mentality.  I wonder if all the union workers at Carrier who kept their jobs swore a loyalty oath to the great Don?  Oh, it would have been poetic justice for Trump to have failed, after shafting so many little guys to whom he owed money.  I am not sure that socially the banks did society a favor by bailing out Donald Trump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2018 at 01:43
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Carrier got a sweetheart deal from the governor of Indiana who just 'happened' to be Mike Pence.  There was a bit of special treatment for Carrier.  There was a hell of a carrot especially crafted for Carrier, and their was a pretty big stick promised against them too.  Still, Carrier did move to Mexico, they just left some jobs (_some_ union jobs, not all) in Indiana, the non-union personnel got the shaft, at least that is my understanding.  Oh, I believe the governor promised them subsidies and tax breaks to stay.  This kind of special deal, was crafted especially for Carrier, using the Indiana governorship to do a deal for the incoming Trump-Pence administration.
No secrets here all out in the open. You see wage earners have a different perspective and labeling it in order to negate the benefits won't change the positive impact on real people.

Quote If one believes that government is supposed to create a level playing field, then what Trump did for Carrier is 'highly irregular.'  Having state and Federal government 'tilt' the playing field will not in the long run, result in an unsound business model become sound.  Oh, let me revise that, if you have governmental interference, you can make a unsound business model appear sound, but then you can do that only if you rely on a model of government (like socialistic subsidies), that in its bed rock is itself unsound.  The question is, is it the role of government to decide who is too big/precious/influential to fail?  I guess so.
To Big To Fail relates to Trump eh? "Creating a level playing field" is Trump rhetoric? Not Obama's? Don't remember Solyndra failure? LOL 
By Stephen Dinan - The Washington Times - Monday, April 27, 2015

Taxpayers are on the hook for more than $2.2 billion in expected costs from the federal government’s energy loan guarantee programs, according to a new audit Monday that suggests the controversial projects may not pay for themselves, as officials had promised.

Nearly $1 billion in loans have already defaulted under the Energy Department program, which included the infamous Solyndra stimulus project and dozens of other green technology programs the Obama administration has approved, totaling nearly about $30 billion in taxpayer backing, the Government Accountability Office reported in its audit.

Quote   Of course, Trump wouldn't have any problem with this, 'conscious' wise, after all, the banks decided that he was 'worth more to them alive, then he was to them dead,' and bailed him out, when they should have let him go under from the dead weight of an airline, and two empty Atlantic City casinos.  He is doing the same, not out of the goodness of his heart, nor because it is good economic policy, but because now they owe him, or rather because now he owns them.  Something that appeals to his feudal mentality.  I wonder if all the union workers at Carrier who kept their jobs swore a loyalty oath to the great Don?  Oh, it would have been poetic justice for Trump to have failed, after shafting so many little guys to whom he owed money.  I am not sure that socially the banks did society a favor by bailing out Donald Trump.

Even though you can't document the union story ( which really isn't shocking) and it shouldn't be offensive to liberals- you will continue citing it as though it were factual a la CNN. Of course Union members do better, get more-that's_ why_ they_ join and pay dues.

Who thinks Trump does anything because of some saintly inspiration? Which government bailout? 

Now don't stray from the OP, Bailouts didn't start with Trump.Wink



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2018 at 21:46
Government should create equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome.  Unions have guaranteed it that pay in the United States is prohibitively high for companies, and priced themselves out of the market.  Once upon a time, the US did not have any economic competition, because the rest of the world had destroyed itself.  At this time unions felt inclined to ask for higher wages and pensions, and the companies were inclined to give it to them, because they thought that the good times would go on forever.  Lo, they didn't go on forever, but that hasn't prevented a desire for more and more, while the market has gotten less and less.

I have some sympathy for a poor, hungry Mexican, Chinese, or Vietnamese, especially when Union workers in the United States can't work for anything less than $ 30/ hour.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 00:47
Last week there was a reporter interviewed on Fresh Air (pod casts online), who wrote an article "Making China Great Again."  In other words, Trump has pulled the US out of relationships in the Pacific Rim, and China is taking up his invitation and moving in.  China has had a long tradition of courting the barbarian with flattery, and so they laid it down with trowel during Trump's visit and Donald ate it all up.  He was critical of the Chinese during the campaign, but now, not so much.

Far from making America "great again," President Trump seems to be putting America in the toilet.  I am not sure whether Donald Trump is intentionally Russia's or China's stooge, or if it is just working out that way.  And yes, I am inclined to believing much of the media.  For those who cry that the media does not like Trump, I am inclined to say, what is there to like?  But of course, being liked is not a prerequisite for being President, at least not universally liked.  Respected, that may be another matter.  Trump confuses being feared with being respected.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2018 at 02:41
Apparently, Donald Trump paid off a pornstar "Stormy Daniels" a month before the election, six figures to keep quiet about their encounter in 2006.  Trump is the gift that keeps on giving, and not just to reporters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2018 at 03:23
A very important and topical issue confronting said man is the failure/refusal of the Senate to pass financial legislation.

I have no dog in this fight, so I'm asking, what exactly does it mean to the majority of Americans when the government "shuts down", which is the phrase being used by the media.

I note that some non-essential civil servants are being sent on leave, so what else happens? How do the essential national services carry on with no money?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2018 at 02:34
The funny thing is that the Democrats are the party of (big) government, and they are the ones who are shutting it down, although they would claim that it is the Republicans because the Republicans won't do what they want, there were a few Republicans who voted against it too.  It is also funny because they are going to bat for illegal aliens, albeit "dreamers" who moved to the United States with their parents when they were children.  The "dreamers" have a great deal of sympathy amongst both Democrats, Independents, and probably many Republicans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2018 at 11:36
Franciscosan

That's all well and good, but you didn't answer my question.

Are you wandering off again? Unhappy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2018 at 23:26
Are you asking me what happens when the giant octopus with tendrils into every aspect of American life goes to sleep?  I don't know, people will be inconvenienced, what do you expect to happen?  Some people will like the government shutdown, and some won't.  For some it will be an advantage and for others it will be a disadvantage.  For more it will be perceived as a disadvantage because rightfully or wrongfully, they need their fix, and the government plays the role of giving it to them.  But, as I pointed out, it is the party of big government that is inconveniencing people, although people tend to fault those in power (the Republicans) whether it is their "fault" or not.  That is one thing the Democrats are banking on, that Republicans will feel the heat more than they will.

But, this is a hiccup. not a lingering illness.  I expect it will be "fixed" in a few days, I hope.

Why do you think I am able to judge such a mess at the beginning of it?  wait until its over, and then I will still avoid the question, because I don't really know except for cliches that you can probably grasp on your own.

Just because you ask a question and I don't answer it does not mean I am off topic (and you are not).  You ignored my comment on the 'important' issue of Stormy Daniels.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2018 at 02:12
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Apparently, Donald Trump paid off a pornstar "Stormy Daniels" a month before the election, six figures to keep quiet about their encounter in 2006.  Trump is the gift that keeps on giving, and not just to reporters.

More than a few famous Americans, including Presidents, have been accused of involvement in sexual peccadillos during their careers.

Does it make them less qualified or able to govern? I don't think so.

The media has a bad habit of jumping on stories of a very personal or private nature when it comes to famous people-this resulted in the birth of the paparazzi.

Personally, I don't care if politicians have sexual adventures or drive their cars over the speed limit, as long as they're able to do the job that they were elected to do, and their private lives don't influence their decision making.

I think that there's far too much intrusion into the private lives of celebrities.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2018 at 02:19
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Are you asking me what happens when the giant octopus with tendrils into every aspect of American life goes to sleep?  I don't know, people will be inconvenienced, what do you expect to happen?  Some people will like the government shutdown, and some won't.  For some it will be an advantage and for others it will be a disadvantage.  For more it will be perceived as a disadvantage because rightfully or wrongfully, they need their fix, and the government plays the role of giving it to them.  But, as I pointed out, it is the party of big government that is inconveniencing people, although people tend to fault those in power (the Republicans) whether it is their "fault" or not.  That is one thing the Democrats are banking on, that Republicans will feel the heat more than they will.

But, this is a hiccup. not a lingering illness.  I expect it will be "fixed" in a few days, I hope.

Why do you think I am able to judge such a mess at the beginning of it?  wait until its over, and then I will still avoid the question, because I don't really know except for cliches that you can probably grasp on your own.

Just because you ask a question and I don't answer it does not mean I am off topic (and you are not).  You ignored my comment on the 'important' issue of Stormy Daniels.

Franciscosan

Perhaps you've misinterpreted what I was asking.

For example,in Australia if the Opposition or the Senate blocked supply (The Annual Budget Bill), it would be cause for intervention by the Governor General (as in 1975) to either dismiss the government and give government to the opposition, or to call a General Election-all positions being vacant. This would be a very major step.

In essence, it would mean that all employees of the Federal Government would not be paid, and the functions of government would close if the situation was not resolved quickly. The country would close for government business.

It doesn't take an Einstein to work out what that would cause, chaos, even anarchy.

That's what I'm asking, how would the US respond to a "closure"?

(I know, it's all irrelevant now, the impasse is over)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2018 at 04:24
Republicans shut down government over Obamacare during President Obama's second term.  We are still here.  The beast has a lot of inertia, perhaps payments get delayed for some a few days, but it does not mean they are not still owed.  Of course, we might go through the whole thing again in 3 weeks:(  We don't really operate on a budget these days, we just kick the can down the road.

They say that droughts don't effect trees until three years later.....

President Trump has been yo-yoing back and forth on DACA.  They say that if you are an advisor, you either want to be the last to see him before the decision, or the first to see him that day.  President Trump has been nice to the democrats in the room and then bashing them on twitter.  I would say he is the master of mixed signals, but that would imply that there is a method to his madness.

Btw, President Trump got a physical (military doctor, not his own quack), his cognitive ability is unimpaired, but he counts as obese, so do 36 % of American adults.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 02:38
Paying off prostitutes is not a legitimate use of campaign funds, and Donald Trump paid, so she wouldn't hurt his campaign.  It is (probably) a violation of campaign finance laws.  I say probably, but almost certainly.

It speaks about his judgment, just as Monica Lewinsky speaks about Bill Clinton's judgment.  It also speaks to whether the Russians might have run him through a honey-trap.  How many ways can Trump be bought?  Let me count.....  He fell in love with China after they wooed him.

Ironically again, the people who usually care about such things in American politics are the Right, but Trump is buying them off through promoting their fringe.  The left who is up in arms, usually is a lot more "liberal" when it comes to infidelity and hanky-panky.  I don't think that will change, except that the left is wearing on their sleeves the anti-sexual harassment badge these days.  We will see whether that sticks for the long term.  maybe it will, maybe from now on the only people that the Democrats will screw are the ones who want to get screwed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018 at 03:16
  1. And all of this has what to do with the so-called shutdown?
  2. Does  presidential  wannabe involvement with a porn star-or anyone else, reduce his ability to govern? (and I'm not saying that Trump has any ability to govern anyway)
  3. Provided he's not placed himself of a position of potential blackmail or outside influence, so what?
And you still haven't addressed my question, if you're unable to, just say so.

And just to go off topic a bit further, under the Westminster System of government, it's not possible for a Prime Minister to order the dismissal of senior Public Servants-unless of course they've been proven to be guilty of some misconduct.

The problem, as I see it is that seems to be an expectation that our politicians all be lily-white, with not even the slightest stain on their character. A most unrealistic expectation in my view.

Let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone!



Edited by toyomotor - 24 Jan 2018 at 03:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2018 at 05:05
If you want to see what happens with a government shutdown, look at the one during the Obama.  Study it, after 3 years of studying it and the current shutdown, maybe you will know what happens during a shutdown.  I don't think you understand, I am not here to answer your impossible questions.  I am here to try to give a little insight into the silliness, but also the seriousness of Trump.  The "important" questions.  So if you want to go off topic, and ask about something so huge, that nobody really understands all the ramifications, you can, I can tell you a little bit more than you know, but I don't know that much, nobody does, 50 years later we will look back and have a better understanding, that's called history.  But why do you expect me to do your homework for you?  I have suggested you look up commentators like Shields and Brooks, and Fareed Zakaria, have you looked them up?  Look them up on the issue and then ask me about what they say.  If you want... you don't have to do anything you don't want, but please don't ask me to define the universe and give three examples....

The relevance of the porn star pay off is 1) that he will pay off instead of face the music, is he being blackmailed by Russia, how would we know?  He has worked to cover up something as stupid as a time with a porn star, why would he not try to cover up Russian involvement.  As I said before, 2) paying off a porn star is a violation of campaign law, and illegal use of funds to influence the outcome of the campaign.  Now they are not going to take it away from him, at least not yet.  3) The United States is a lot more conservative than the press will admit, 3) it does matter that he 'associates' with porn stars.  Fundamentalists care about such moral lapses, or at least they pretend to do so.  In another thread I asked what would it take for supporters to become disenchanted with him.  Some are becoming more disenchanted, some see no problem at all, and some seem to want to give him a blank check as long as he plays lip service to the "conservative" agenda.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2018 at 00:58
OK, so you don't know what happens when the US government "shuts down".

We'll leave it that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2018 at 22:35
Fareed Zakaria said that President Trump (teleprompter Trump) did well at Davos.
He says there are three Trumps:
1 Twitter Trump,
2 Demagogic Trump
3 and (mainstream) Republican Trump (or teleprompter Trump).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2018 at 00:53
President Trump did not say that the democrats where treasonous for not clapping at the state of the union speech, he said that 'somebody else said that.  and why not? (adopt that view)'

The democrats said that they did not clap because Trump was fishing for compliments for improving the economy and they (the democrats) did not think he did anything, but that the improvement started under Barack Obama. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2018 at 01:51
Quote President Trump did not say that the democrats where treasonous for not clapping at the state of the union speech, he said that 'somebody else said that.  and why not?

Yeah, like the crowd at his inauguration was the biggest!

Like there was a major terrorist incident in Sweden.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2018 at 03:02
But there is a certain kernel of truth there, voting registration campaigns and high voter turnout benefits democrats, they don't do it out of the goodness of their heart.  Republicans and conservatives, however, are more organized and more likely to, individually, vote.  The new voter tends to say, "what can politics do for me," democrats are the party of welfare programs, although until Barack Obama and Obamacare, the democrats have been very careful to get some Republicans on board as well. 

Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh are whipping up static, they don't care about the accuracy of their reports, but only their superficial verisimilitude.  But they are doing it because 1) voter registration etc, benefits the democrats, 2) It is not like the democrats would care if illegals were voting, they oppose Republican attempts at voter ids.

There is one place were there is voter fraud, absentee ballots.  
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Quote But there is a certain kernel of truth there.

No there's not.

And the rest of your post deviates from the topic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2018 at 13:19
Quote Biden: Trump should avoid Mueller interview, has 'difficulty with precision'

And that's precisely why Trumps advisers are trying to stop him from appearing in person before the Mueller probe-he's a loose canon, shoots from the lip before engaging his brain, often gets lost midway through a sentence.

Trump seems to believe the lies that he tells, and that will bring him undone, he seems to think that he's politically immortal AND HE'S NOT!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2018 at 21:37
You posted a link on criticism of voter registration in California, and I told you what was behind the criticism, talking heads like Coulter and Limbaugh attack registration plans in California, regardless of whether those are the actual plans, because anyone with any political astuteness will know that registration campaigns are darlings of the Democrats, whereas they will fight voter photo id bills tooth and nail.  Democrats want to leave it loose because it benefits them, and that is part of the truth behind why democrats are criticized for not caring whether voters are legit.

George Washington said, "I cannot tell a lie."  Bill Clinton said, "I cannot tell the truth."  And Donald Trump said, "I cannot tell the difference."

Biden is right, in this case.

It is interesting how one could not have imagined Trump-as-President 14 years ago (some people may have supported him back then, but I still say they couldn't have imagined "now."  Or Obama 20 years ago. and we cannot imagine what is around the corner.  I don't know if that gives me hope or dread.

I think you had a typo in that last sentence, I think you were trying to say that 'He's politically immoral."Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2018 at 02:59
Franciscosan

Quote George Washington said, "I cannot tell a lie."  Bill Clinton said, "I cannot tell the truth."  And Donald Trump said, "I cannot tell the difference."

Good one-I like it.Clap



Quote I think you had a typo in that last sentence, I think you were trying to say that
 'He's politically immoral."Wink

And that too!LOL



Edited by toyomotor - 16 Feb 2018 at 07:24
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2018 at 23:05
Some people (including Donald Trump) think that Donald Trump is being unfairly picked on.  But, I think there has always been a cutting edge to discourse about/ towards/ against the president.  And probably there have always been people oversensitive about what is said about the President, or maybe I should say, humorless.  It has been unusual when the President himself is thin skinned about it.  Nixon was somewhat that way too.

There of course, have been other people that have been the press' darling.  Barack Obama and John F. Kennedy was that way.  (Oh! Camelot!), but even then, the press and the comedians would take a swipe at them, but their heart was not actually into it.  I actually find comedy during Democratic administrations to be more insightful, more in touch with the absolutely absurd element in politics.  Comedy during Republican administrations tends to be more vicious, the monotony of saying of George W. "he's so stupid."  Not only was it not true, but after the first few declarations, it was not original.

Another thing, not true,  Oh!  Obama! he's so smart, he is a constitutional law scholar!  No, he was a lawyer who taught a few adjunct classes on law, constitutional law.


Edited by franciscosan - 08 Feb 2018 at 23:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2018 at 02:48
One reason why the religious right is relatively immune to the criticism of Trump and his improprieties is that he is making some progress on issues like abortion.  Health and Human Services is blocking Obama era funding for teen pregnancy courses, put on by organizations like Planned Parenthood (which does abortions), and is advocating abstinence only courses.  Also immigration programs that provide abortions to women coming in on refugee status, women who have faced traumatic circumstances, is being prevented.  Plus the religious rights biggest hope is to get conservative judges on the Supreme Court, to reverse Roe vs. Wade.  Even if there was a conservative majority, it is doubtful, looking at the Supreme Court in the past, that that would happen.  Conservatives tend to be skeptical about judicial activism, and judicial activism in the late 60s, early 70s, does not justify judicial activism today.  Two wrongs don't make a right.
From what I understand, American abortion laws are quite liberal compared to other nations, and don't make much sense (the three trimester's division in law does not correspond to anything in biology.).  It would be nice to change the law so that abortion would not be legal, after the fetus was viable.  Now one thing I don't understand, is why religious conservatives are opposed to birth control.  Abortion is used as a substitute for birth control, so it seems to me that allowing birth control would cut down on the need for abortion.
There was a conservative back in the '80s whose position on abortion really made sense, he said that a woman does not want an abortion like she wants a new coat, she wants an abortion in the sense that she is trapped, and wants out of the trap.  His answer was to fix the economic and social conditions that create that trap, and then see what is left over.  He made sense, but of course neither side in the abortion debate liked his response.

But my point is that this is a key issue a lot of religious conservatives, and President Trump is doing something about it.  Look at it from the religious conservatives perspective, what is more important, Trump lying, or people committing murder of little babies?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2018 at 09:47

 Trump, the 'important' issues


It will come as no surprise to some members that I've been described as being "Anti-Trump".

It's true, I admit it.

One aspect of Trump's personality that I particularly dislike is the number of lies that he tells, most to his own self agrandisement, the rest to belittle or hurt someone else.


Quote (Extract) The most stunning way Trump's lies differed from our participants', though, was in their cruelty. An astonishing 50 percent of Trump's lies were hurtful or disparaging. For example, he proclaimed that John Brennan, James Clapper and James Comey, all career intelligence or law enforcement officials, were "political hacks." He said that "the Sloppy Michael Moore Show on Broadway was a TOTAL BOMB and was forced to close." He insisted that other "countries, they don't put their finest in the lottery system. They put people probably in many cases that they don't want." And he claimed that "Ralph Northam, who is running for Governor of Virginia, is fighting for the violent MS-13 killer gangs & sanctuary cities."

and further

Quote (Extract) The sheer frequency of Trump's lies appears to be having an effect, and it may not be the one he is going for. A Politico/Morning Consult poll from late October showed that only 35 percent of voters believed that Trump was honest, while 51 percent said he was not honest. (The others said they didn't know or had no opinion.) Results of a Quinnipiac University poll from November were similar: Thirty-seven percent of voters thought Trump was honest, compared with 58 percent who thought he was not.

For fewer than 40 percent of American voters to see the president as honest is truly remarkable. Most humans, most of the time, believe other people. That's our default setting. Usually, we need a reason to disbelieve.

Research on the detection of deception consistently documents this "truth bias." In the typical study, participants observe people making statements and are asked to indicate, each time, whether they think the person is lying or telling the truth. Measuring whether people believe others should be difficult to do accurately, because simply asking the question disrupts the tendency to assume that other people are telling the truth. It gives participants a reason to wonder. And yet, in our statistical summary of more than 200 studies, Charles F. Bond Jr. and I found that participants still believed other people more often than they should have — 58 percent of the time in studies in which only half of the statements were truthful. People are biased toward believing others, even in studies in which they are told explicitly that only half of the statements they will be judging are truths.

By telling so many lies, and so many that are mean-spirited, Trump is violating some of the most fundamental norms of human social interaction and human decency. Many of the rest of us, in turn, have abandoned a norm of our own — we no longer give Trump the benefit of the doubt that we usually give so readily.

That as many as 58% of the people surveyed, in one survey, didn't think Trump is honest, should be of a worry for him and his advisors.

The problem is, he started off on DAY ONE with blatant lies about the size of the crowd at his inauguration, and carried on from there. Obviously the media jumped all over it, and some have been keeping a very careful "Fact Checking" file on his every public statement. Not surprisingly, they have caught him out

Quote "In Trump's first 298 days in office, however, he made 1,628 false or misleading claims or flip-flops, by The Post's tally.

These facts have been publicised by a number of the US Print Media, so many in fact that I could not believe that they're printing False Facts.

President Trump needs to address this issue with his incoming Press Secretary/Media Advisor, and curtail his comments as well as his tweets. If he thinks that the majority of American citizens either don't know about his lies, or that they believe him, he's in serious political doo doo!

The other "Elephant in the Room" is the apparent chaos within the White House administrative force. How many Media Advisors so far? Is it five? National Security Advisors? Attorney's General? Who's next seems to be the question.

If I was Kelly, I'd be walking backwards wherever I go-protecting his back, and at least one other long time supporter is alleged to be on the chopping block, just waiting for the axe to fall.

Trump is not engendering the loyalty he claims he deserves, as he daily sacks important and knowledgeable people in his administration. Meanwhile, cases are mounting over his son, daughter and son-in-law over their lack of experience and knowledge, and their still strong links to private businesses, some which are at least tainted by contacts with foreign nationals at most inappropriate times.

My glass ball doesn't show him in office after the next Presidential Elections.





Edited by toyomotor - 03 Mar 2018 at 10:18
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 13:30
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 23:16
Yes! Glad you kept this title for Important issues Wink
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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