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Trump, the 'important' issues

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Vanuatu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2018 at 12:32
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Regardless, Trump did say it when addressing the NRA. Just as he said that if Parisians had been armed, the jihadist attacks would not have happened.


Trump "QUOTED" the London ER surgeon. Don't pretend that that wasn't an attempt to pin Trump as a LIAR. Easy to do bc he does lie.

So toyomotor it's fine to rip the US about guns but UK and their stabbings are sacrosanct-just shut up about it, right?

Edited by Vanuatu - 09 May 2018 at 13:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2018 at 02:58
Quote So toyomotor it's fine to rip the US about guns but UK and their stabbings are sacrosanct-just shut up about it, right?


Nope! Just don't use the London experience as a reason not to control firearms in the US.

Make it clear that the American yardstick for violent crime is different to the yard stick used in the UK-they don't compare equally.

People in glass houses......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2018 at 04:19
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote <span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">So toyomotor it's fine to rip the US about guns but UK and their stabbings are sacrosanct-just shut up about it, right?
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
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<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">Nope! Just don't use the London experience as a reason not to control firearms in the US.</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">Make it clear that the American yardstick for violent crime is different to the yard stick used in the UK-they don't compare equally.</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">People in glass houses......</span>


No one is using the "London Experience" as a reason not to control firearms in the US. Such BS that you even imply that it was my meaning, just trying to distract from the glass house that the UK is in!!

I know "Chopper" wasn't a mass shooter! I said he was a psycho and UK and AU have no shortage of perverts and killers!

Yes the scale is different OBVIOUSLY!
Doesn't mean that your society is more civilized! AND UK has given the world more than it's share of depraved murders who prey on strangers. Honestly what crap you tell yourself these days. BC you HATE TRUMP like John McCain you are blinded by your personal disapproval.

If Europe has to change their game then so be it maybe Europe should stop cowering in fear and take some definitive steps forward.
Is it possible that the whole of modern diplomacy really had no idea how to deal with KJU? Maybe other foreign narratives have been a LIE told to serve political purposes?
OR, preferred NoKo as a villain to fuel the fears of voters?
Glass Houses Indeed

Edited by Vanuatu - 10 May 2018 at 04:22
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2018 at 07:34
Yes, that's precisely what he's doing, trying to draw attention away from the problem immediately in front of him.

You're correct, Chopper Read was not a gunman, although he did shoot one man in the stomach. He was a thug.

I accept that both the UK and Australia have thugs and killers, but we have far less gun deaths per capita than the US, because of gun control.

Indeed, people in glass houses....




Edited by toyomotor - 11 May 2018 at 08:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2018 at 22:54
Switzerland has a lot of guns and is a fairly well-ordered society. (and they invented the cockoo clock).

I do think that there is a little poetic justice with Trump criticizing Britain and France, since Europe (and liberals) go into such ecstasy over criticizing America in comparison to some lauded European ideal.  But, I agree that Trump's observations on Europe are sh-t for Europe, (just as detached leftist intellectuals observations are sh-t for America).  The most relevant questions is whether Trump's observations are that relevant _for_ America, (and the detached leftist intellectuals observations are relevant anywhere.)

I think there is a detachment from reality in both cases.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2018 at 17:03
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Yes, that's precisely what he's doing, trying to draw attention away from the problem immediately in front of him.

You're correct, Chopper Read was not a gunman, although he did shoot one man in the stomach. He was a thug.

I accept that both the UK and Australia have thugs and killers, but we have far less gun deaths per capita than the US, because of gun control.

Indeed, people in glass houses....



Since you and Caldrail have your own special sources just thought I'd include some for you to refute. You don't have far less deaths than US bc of violent crime. Guns may be harder to come by but that doesn't stop killers. As you well know, sorry you two are full of s***.

And UK 's only purpose in life is to dog the US, (pathetic) but Brexit proved most people think your leaders are props and power hungry posers. UK wants the Iran deal bc they want to be the personal bankers of Iranian -Israel hating-Terrorists.

Despite your imagined criminal apocalypse the US has seen violent crime rates drop, EXCEPT for property theft which corresponds with exactly what I have tried to explain to you. Our highest violent crime rates are the concentrated in Chicago with black street gangs.
In the Southwest the
illegals are driving violent crime. ANTIFA "Hoodlums" stealing from property owners and the elderly are rampant and even these peaks in crime are limited to certain geographical areas.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/30/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/

Ah UK,

Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour came to power.
The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and South Africa. Opposition leaders said the disclosures were a "damning indictment" of the Government's failure to tackle deep-rooted social problems.
The figures combined crime statistics for England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
The UK had a greater number of murders in 2007 than any other EU country – 927 – and at a relative rate higher than most western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain.

Austrailia:
Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime: In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent. Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent. Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.


The argument, as Vox’s headline puts it, is “Australia confiscated 650,000 guns. Murders and suicides plummeted.”
The piece, along with many gun control advocates, cites a Harvard University study whose conclusion begins with this line: “It does not appear that the Australian experience with gun buybacks is fully replicable in the United States.” Not a great start for Vox’s angle, but I digress.
The study doesn’t conclude that “murders and suicides plummeted” in Australia after the 1996 gun ban, as Vox claims in its headline. Instead, it focuses solely on firearm-related murders and suicides.
After the gun ban, violent crime rates were up:
Yes, as with the gun-happy United States, the murder rate is down in Australia. It’s dropped 31 percent from a rate of 1.6 per 100,000 people in 1994 to 1.1 per 100,000 in 2012.

But it’s the only serious crime that saw a consistent decline post-ban.

In fact, according to the Australian government’s own statistics, a number of serious crimes peaked in the years after the ban. Manslaughter, sexual assault, kidnapping, armed robbery, and unarmed robbery all saw peaks in the years following the ban, and most remain near or above pre-ban rates. The effects of the 1996 ban on violent crime are, frankly, unimpressive at best.

It’s even less impressive when again compared to America’s decrease in violent
crime over the same period. According to data from the U.S.
Justice Department, violent crime fell nearly 72 percent between 1993 and 2011. Again, this happened as guns were being manufactured and purchased at an ever-increasing rate.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html

https://winteryknight.com/2017/10/06/did-australias-ban-on-guns-lower-violent-crime-rates-and-lower-suicide-rates-2/You don't have far less deaths than US bc of violent crime

Edited by Vanuatu - 12 May 2018 at 17:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2018 at 22:10
I think that usefulness of comparisons between one country and another (and another) are fairly limited (i.e. useless) for practical purposes.  Figures don't lie but liars figure, too much apples and oranges.  Not that some cannot get quite a good deal of political mileage out of doing so, there are plenty of people in world who want to tear down the US, 'just because' the US is the biggest guy on the block.  And there are plenty of people within America who are disgruntled enough to want to help them, because if they don't have the "American dream," then why should anyone else be allowed to live peaceably as well?  That is not to say that America does not have problems, rather it is to say that there is a difference in constructive criticism and suppressive fire (shooting at people to make them keep their heads down.)

I don't think it is just because I am American that I prefer the idea of American 'hegemony' over Russian kleptocracy or Venezuelan/Cuban style socialism, or the Islamic 'Republic' of Iran or the weird communist monarchy of North Korea. 

And yes, violent crime has been going down since probably the 1970s.  Part of that is aging demographics, and part of it is the general disrespect for all authority with the counterculture in the 1960s and 1970s.  Certain crimes, however, (mass shootings, serial killers) seem to have gotten more common however in that time (the '70s and after).  Donald Trump, incidentally is part of that trend of general disrespect for authority (and it is also probably also there amongst the media taking potshots at him).  Trump does have some respect for the military, but perhaps that is because he went to military school.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 13:00
Quote
Since you and Caldrail have your own special sources just thought I'd include some for you to refute. You don't have far less deaths than US bc of violent crime. Guns may be harder to come by but that doesn't stop killers. As you well know, sorry you two are full of s***.
Quote How the US compares: The number of gun murders per capita in the US in 2012 - the most recent year for comparable statistics - was nearly 30 times that in the UK, at 2.9 per 100,000 compared with just 0.1.

Of all the murders in the US in 2012, 60% were by firearm compared with 31% in Canada, 18.2% in Australia, and just 10% in the UK.

Source: UNODC.

 
 
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 13:55
Originally posted by caldrail caldrail wrote:


Quote
Since you and Caldrail have your own special sources just thought I'd include some for you to refute. You don't have far less deaths than US bc of violent crime. Guns may be harder to come by but that doesn't stop killers. As you well know, sorry you two are full of s***.
Quote How the US compares: The number of gun murders per capita in the US in 2012 - the most recent year for comparable statistics - was nearly 30 times that in the UK, at 2.9 per 100,000 compared with just 0.1.

Of all the murders in the US in 2012, 60% were by firearm compared with 31% in Canada, 18.2% in Australia, and just 10% in the UK.

Source: [URL=[URL=https://data.unodc.org/#state:6%5d]https://data.unodc.org/#state:6][/URL]UNODC[/URL].

 
 

And yet no one wants to be stripped of rights to arm themselves? Go figure.
Not running from the facts, don't you either. UK is every bit as screwed up as the US. Why not tell us where it happened? I know it wasn't Caldrail's street. Or mine.
But do continue to ignore the MASSIVE difference in the population size.
If there were more people to stab, you would have more stabbings or maybe acid in face, trendy.
Want to compare social problems next?


Edited by Vanuatu - 14 May 2018 at 13:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 03:18
I don't think that people these days are any more or less screwed up than they were in the past.  Although I do believe there is more order these days than chaos, but that is not necessarily a good thing.
The Nazis wanted a New Order, and so did the Soviets, and they had it.  I think that order imposed from the top down can be more pernicious than any chaos.  There are always unintended consequences, especially when someone tries to "establish" a utopia.

I think that the Anglo-American system of natural law has something right.  I think that there is such a thing as human nature, and that precedent in natural law is a running commentary on it.  We will never fully understand it, and maybe that is not the point, it is a process unfolding just as humanity is a process unfolding.  There are plenty who would attack natural law on the basis of straw man arguments.  The Bill of Rights assumes a natural law, and I think it dangerous to throw out natural law, just to answer questions of the 2nd amendment.  It is a sign of people who want to fix something that fundamentally isn't broken.  People who want an order to fix all chaos, people who see the mote in others' eye and not the beam in their own.  It might be a little ironic that most people who have guns, have a rather live and let live philosophy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 13:21
Err, excuse me Mr Trump, you want a fence built?

Quote FromThe Guardian - Thursday, 24 May 2018

 The world’s largest cat-proof fence has been completed in central Australia, creating a 94 square kilometre sanctuary for endangered marsupials.
The 44km fence – made of 85,000 pickets, 400km of wire and 130km of netting – surrounds the Newhaven wildlife sanctuary, a former cattle station that has been bought by the Australian Wildlife Conservancy.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 22:37
toyomotor, I thought you were more astute than to bring up the "f----" word around Trump.

On the other hand, maybe you like the idea of a f----...., which would be a disaster for the desert tortoise and other wildlife (I like turtles and tortoises).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 04:50
Quote Mr Trump pulled out of the summit on Thursday, citing Pyongyang’s “tremendous anger and open hostility” — only to reverse himself a day later after North Korea said it was willing to talk “at any time.”

"Flipper" Trump does it again.  According to one US journalist, Trump pulled out of the talks "before Kim could". 

This game of political "one-up-manship" is the last thing the world needs, it craves stability at a time when the so-called Leader of the Free World changes his mind like he changes his socks. Friends and allies of the US reel at the constant changes that Trump makes, only to reverse them shortly after.

In some respects, he's made the US an irrelevance, and that should never have been allowed to happen.
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