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Trump, the 'important' issues

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2018 at 12:32
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Regardless, Trump did say it when addressing the NRA. Just as he said that if Parisians had been armed, the jihadist attacks would not have happened.


Trump "QUOTED" the London ER surgeon. Don't pretend that that wasn't an attempt to pin Trump as a LIAR. Easy to do bc he does lie.

So toyomotor it's fine to rip the US about guns but UK and their stabbings are sacrosanct-just shut up about it, right?

Edited by Vanuatu - 09 May 2018 at 13:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2018 at 02:58
Quote So toyomotor it's fine to rip the US about guns but UK and their stabbings are sacrosanct-just shut up about it, right?


Nope! Just don't use the London experience as a reason not to control firearms in the US.

Make it clear that the American yardstick for violent crime is different to the yard stick used in the UK-they don't compare equally.

People in glass houses......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2018 at 04:19
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote <span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">So toyomotor it's fine to rip the US about guns but UK and their stabbings are sacrosanct-just shut up about it, right?
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">Nope! Just don't use the London experience as a reason not to control firearms in the US.</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">Make it clear that the American yardstick for violent crime is different to the yard stick used in the UK-they don't compare equally.</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">People in glass houses......</span>


No one is using the "London Experience" as a reason not to control firearms in the US. Such BS that you even imply that it was my meaning, just trying to distract from the glass house that the UK is in!!

I know "Chopper" wasn't a mass shooter! I said he was a psycho and UK and AU have no shortage of perverts and killers!

Yes the scale is different OBVIOUSLY!
Doesn't mean that your society is more civilized! AND UK has given the world more than it's share of depraved murders who prey on strangers. Honestly what crap you tell yourself these days. BC you HATE TRUMP like John McCain you are blinded by your personal disapproval.

If Europe has to change their game then so be it maybe Europe should stop cowering in fear and take some definitive steps forward.
Is it possible that the whole of modern diplomacy really had no idea how to deal with KJU? Maybe other foreign narratives have been a LIE told to serve political purposes?
OR, preferred NoKo as a villain to fuel the fears of voters?
Glass Houses Indeed

Edited by Vanuatu - 10 May 2018 at 04:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2018 at 07:34
Yes, that's precisely what he's doing, trying to draw attention away from the problem immediately in front of him.

You're correct, Chopper Read was not a gunman, although he did shoot one man in the stomach. He was a thug.

I accept that both the UK and Australia have thugs and killers, but we have far less gun deaths per capita than the US, because of gun control.

Indeed, people in glass houses....




Edited by toyomotor - 11 May 2018 at 08:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2018 at 22:54
Switzerland has a lot of guns and is a fairly well-ordered society. (and they invented the cockoo clock).

I do think that there is a little poetic justice with Trump criticizing Britain and France, since Europe (and liberals) go into such ecstasy over criticizing America in comparison to some lauded European ideal.  But, I agree that Trump's observations on Europe are sh-t for Europe, (just as detached leftist intellectuals observations are sh-t for America).  The most relevant questions is whether Trump's observations are that relevant _for_ America, (and the detached leftist intellectuals observations are relevant anywhere.)

I think there is a detachment from reality in both cases.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2018 at 17:03
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Yes, that's precisely what he's doing, trying to draw attention away from the problem immediately in front of him.

You're correct, Chopper Read was not a gunman, although he did shoot one man in the stomach. He was a thug.

I accept that both the UK and Australia have thugs and killers, but we have far less gun deaths per capita than the US, because of gun control.

Indeed, people in glass houses....



Since you and Caldrail have your own special sources just thought I'd include some for you to refute. You don't have far less deaths than US bc of violent crime. Guns may be harder to come by but that doesn't stop killers. As you well know, sorry you two are full of s***.

And UK 's only purpose in life is to dog the US, (pathetic) but Brexit proved most people think your leaders are props and power hungry posers. UK wants the Iran deal bc they want to be the personal bankers of Iranian -Israel hating-Terrorists.

Despite your imagined criminal apocalypse the US has seen violent crime rates drop, EXCEPT for property theft which corresponds with exactly what I have tried to explain to you. Our highest violent crime rates are the concentrated in Chicago with black street gangs.
In the Southwest the
illegals are driving violent crime. ANTIFA "Hoodlums" stealing from property owners and the elderly are rampant and even these peaks in crime are limited to certain geographical areas.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/30/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/

Ah UK,

Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour came to power.
The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and South Africa. Opposition leaders said the disclosures were a "damning indictment" of the Government's failure to tackle deep-rooted social problems.
The figures combined crime statistics for England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
The UK had a greater number of murders in 2007 than any other EU country – 927 – and at a relative rate higher than most western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain.

Austrailia:
Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime: In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent. Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent. Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.


The argument, as Vox’s headline puts it, is “Australia confiscated 650,000 guns. Murders and suicides plummeted.”
The piece, along with many gun control advocates, cites a Harvard University study whose conclusion begins with this line: “It does not appear that the Australian experience with gun buybacks is fully replicable in the United States.” Not a great start for Vox’s angle, but I digress.
The study doesn’t conclude that “murders and suicides plummeted” in Australia after the 1996 gun ban, as Vox claims in its headline. Instead, it focuses solely on firearm-related murders and suicides.
After the gun ban, violent crime rates were up:
Yes, as with the gun-happy United States, the murder rate is down in Australia. It’s dropped 31 percent from a rate of 1.6 per 100,000 people in 1994 to 1.1 per 100,000 in 2012.

But it’s the only serious crime that saw a consistent decline post-ban.

In fact, according to the Australian government’s own statistics, a number of serious crimes peaked in the years after the ban. Manslaughter, sexual assault, kidnapping, armed robbery, and unarmed robbery all saw peaks in the years following the ban, and most remain near or above pre-ban rates. The effects of the 1996 ban on violent crime are, frankly, unimpressive at best.

It’s even less impressive when again compared to America’s decrease in violent
crime over the same period. According to data from the U.S.
Justice Department, violent crime fell nearly 72 percent between 1993 and 2011. Again, this happened as guns were being manufactured and purchased at an ever-increasing rate.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html

https://winteryknight.com/2017/10/06/did-australias-ban-on-guns-lower-violent-crime-rates-and-lower-suicide-rates-2/You don't have far less deaths than US bc of violent crime

Edited by Vanuatu - 12 May 2018 at 17:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2018 at 22:10
I think that usefulness of comparisons between one country and another (and another) are fairly limited (i.e. useless) for practical purposes.  Figures don't lie but liars figure, too much apples and oranges.  Not that some cannot get quite a good deal of political mileage out of doing so, there are plenty of people in world who want to tear down the US, 'just because' the US is the biggest guy on the block.  And there are plenty of people within America who are disgruntled enough to want to help them, because if they don't have the "American dream," then why should anyone else be allowed to live peaceably as well?  That is not to say that America does not have problems, rather it is to say that there is a difference in constructive criticism and suppressive fire (shooting at people to make them keep their heads down.)

I don't think it is just because I am American that I prefer the idea of American 'hegemony' over Russian kleptocracy or Venezuelan/Cuban style socialism, or the Islamic 'Republic' of Iran or the weird communist monarchy of North Korea. 

And yes, violent crime has been going down since probably the 1970s.  Part of that is aging demographics, and part of it is the general disrespect for all authority with the counterculture in the 1960s and 1970s.  Certain crimes, however, (mass shootings, serial killers) seem to have gotten more common however in that time (the '70s and after).  Donald Trump, incidentally is part of that trend of general disrespect for authority (and it is also probably also there amongst the media taking potshots at him).  Trump does have some respect for the military, but perhaps that is because he went to military school.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 13:00
Quote
Since you and Caldrail have your own special sources just thought I'd include some for you to refute. You don't have far less deaths than US bc of violent crime. Guns may be harder to come by but that doesn't stop killers. As you well know, sorry you two are full of s***.
Quote How the US compares: The number of gun murders per capita in the US in 2012 - the most recent year for comparable statistics - was nearly 30 times that in the UK, at 2.9 per 100,000 compared with just 0.1.

Of all the murders in the US in 2012, 60% were by firearm compared with 31% in Canada, 18.2% in Australia, and just 10% in the UK.

Source: UNODC.

 
 
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 13:55
Originally posted by caldrail caldrail wrote:


Quote
Since you and Caldrail have your own special sources just thought I'd include some for you to refute. You don't have far less deaths than US bc of violent crime. Guns may be harder to come by but that doesn't stop killers. As you well know, sorry you two are full of s***.
Quote How the US compares: The number of gun murders per capita in the US in 2012 - the most recent year for comparable statistics - was nearly 30 times that in the UK, at 2.9 per 100,000 compared with just 0.1.

Of all the murders in the US in 2012, 60% were by firearm compared with 31% in Canada, 18.2% in Australia, and just 10% in the UK.

Source: [URL=[URL=https://data.unodc.org/#state:6%5d]https://data.unodc.org/#state:6][/URL]UNODC[/URL].

 
 

And yet no one wants to be stripped of rights to arm themselves? Go figure.
Not running from the facts, don't you either. UK is every bit as screwed up as the US. Why not tell us where it happened? I know it wasn't Caldrail's street. Or mine.
But do continue to ignore the MASSIVE difference in the population size.
If there were more people to stab, you would have more stabbings or maybe acid in face, trendy.
Want to compare social problems next?


Edited by Vanuatu - 14 May 2018 at 13:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 03:18
I don't think that people these days are any more or less screwed up than they were in the past.  Although I do believe there is more order these days than chaos, but that is not necessarily a good thing.
The Nazis wanted a New Order, and so did the Soviets, and they had it.  I think that order imposed from the top down can be more pernicious than any chaos.  There are always unintended consequences, especially when someone tries to "establish" a utopia.

I think that the Anglo-American system of natural law has something right.  I think that there is such a thing as human nature, and that precedent in natural law is a running commentary on it.  We will never fully understand it, and maybe that is not the point, it is a process unfolding just as humanity is a process unfolding.  There are plenty who would attack natural law on the basis of straw man arguments.  The Bill of Rights assumes a natural law, and I think it dangerous to throw out natural law, just to answer questions of the 2nd amendment.  It is a sign of people who want to fix something that fundamentally isn't broken.  People who want an order to fix all chaos, people who see the mote in others' eye and not the beam in their own.  It might be a little ironic that most people who have guns, have a rather live and let live philosophy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 13:21
Err, excuse me Mr Trump, you want a fence built?

Quote FromThe Guardian - Thursday, 24 May 2018

 The world’s largest cat-proof fence has been completed in central Australia, creating a 94 square kilometre sanctuary for endangered marsupials.
The 44km fence – made of 85,000 pickets, 400km of wire and 130km of netting – surrounds the Newhaven wildlife sanctuary, a former cattle station that has been bought by the Australian Wildlife Conservancy.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 22:37
toyomotor, I thought you were more astute than to bring up the "f----" word around Trump.

On the other hand, maybe you like the idea of a f----...., which would be a disaster for the desert tortoise and other wildlife (I like turtles and tortoises).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2018 at 04:50
Quote Mr Trump pulled out of the summit on Thursday, citing Pyongyang’s “tremendous anger and open hostility” — only to reverse himself a day later after North Korea said it was willing to talk “at any time.”

"Flipper" Trump does it again.  According to one US journalist, Trump pulled out of the talks "before Kim could". 

This game of political "one-up-manship" is the last thing the world needs, it craves stability at a time when the so-called Leader of the Free World changes his mind like he changes his socks. Friends and allies of the US reel at the constant changes that Trump makes, only to reverse them shortly after.

In some respects, he's made the US an irrelevance, and that should never have been allowed to happen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2018 at 15:36
If your rabbit proof fence works on MS13 we'll take 2.

Quote "Flipper" does it again. According to one US journalist, Trump pulled out of the talks "before Kim could".


You just proved how easily influenced you are by the haters at CNN. When did any US,AU or UK diplomat get a meeting KJU? He's closer to reaching that goal precisely bc he is not like former presidents. You did read that the launch site
was dismantled. It was falling apart and may be something that NoKo had to do anyway. The fact that KJU does this in response to call to get rid of nukes, makes the move significant.

Are you saying no chance for an actual meeting?
I say it's too soon to tell but hoping for failure to stick it to Trump is CNN's entire reason for being.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2018 at 02:13
[I don't know if the launch site was dismantled, however, they have been talking about the _test_ site being dismantled, which was falling apart and which (the cave) collapsed and killed quite a few awhile back].

No chance?  No.  Optimistic about a chance? wasn't before, aren't now, would like to be pleasantly surprised.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2018 at 03:47
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

If your rabbit proof fence works on MS13 we'll take 2.

Quote "Flipper" does it again. According to one US journalist, Trump pulled out of the talks "before Kim could".


You just proved how easily influenced you are by the haters at CNN. When did any US,AU or UK diplomat get a meeting KJU? He's closer to reaching that goal precisely bc he is not like former presidents. You did read that the launch site
was dismantled. It was falling apart and may be something that NoKo had to do anyway. The fact that KJU does this in response to call to get rid of nukes, makes the move significant.

Are you saying no chance for an actual meeting?
I say it's too soon to tell but hoping for failure to stick it to Trump is CNN's entire reason for being.

1. I don't rely on CNN, I read about 11 different US News sources daily;
2. Yes I read about the launch site being dismantled, and if that was brought about by Trump's strong talk, then more power to him;
3. No, I'm not saying there's no chance of a meeting, what I suggest is that by to-ing and fro-ing, Trump could have created an uncertainty in KJU's mind, and therefore a change in attitude;
4. I sincerely hope Trump succeeds where others haven't even tried.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2018 at 18:02
Trump isn't the only factor, you have S Ko and China, Taiwan, Japan others too right?

As far as I can discern, the test site was used for launches ;

Plans by Kim Jong Un to shut the site down were revealed ahead of his historic summit with President Moon Jae-in of South Korea last month.
"From 21 April, North Korea will stop nuclear tests and launches of intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs)," KCNA said at the time.
"The North will shut down a nuclear test site in the country's northern side to prove the vow to suspend nuclear test."

https://news.sky.com/story/north-korea-to-finish-dismantling-nuclear-test-site-within-two-weeks-11369095
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 00:00
The test site that collapsed and killed North Koreans was the atomic bomb test site.  It was not of much use anymore, anyways.  Probably is geologically unstable by now.  I don't think that they tested missiles there, but maybe???  The North has successfully detonated nuclear bombs, so they probably don't really need nuclear tests to figure out how they work.  They probably could use more data on shrinking the bomb to ballistic missile payload size.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 03:16
Having read over the past 12 months many different reports, from many different sources, about Donald Trump, I suggest that he may have made a serious error in judgement when appointing Giulianni to his defence team.

Giulianni is a very experienced lawyer, which makes some of his statements point to the fact that he's now too old to handle such an important task.

He starts off by making a statement completely at odds with what Trump has said, causing Trump to remark,"He's only been here for a few days, he'll catch up," or something to that effect.

He's remarked that Trump could pardon himself, which doesn't appear to be consistent with the Presidents powers under the Constitution or other legislation, then says that he wouldn't do it though. Does this mean that Trump is exploring this option?

He says that Trump could not be forced to answer a subpoena, and that goes against the notion that no one's above the law, even the President.

Giulianni says that Trump should not appear before the Special Commission, "Because our recollections keep changing," and "It's very difficult to defend a client who is an habitual liar." Well, we've all seen examples of changing recollections and downright lying, but what is Giulianni saying? Is he saying that Trump should not appear because his lies will bring him undone?

He's also said that if Trump had shot Comey, he still couldn't be prosecuted, is this guy for real?

Over the past few weeks, one could be excused for believing that Giulianni thinks he's still a prosecutor.


Edited by toyomotor - 04 Jun 2018 at 03:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 22:59
I believe that Giuliani said that Trump could pardon himself, and be impeached the next day.  In other words, Trump pardoning himself would not make his problems go neatly away.

Personally, I don't really think that it is news that Donald Trump lies, the question is, does he lie about anything consequential?  I think Giuliani is saying that in order to be a good liar, you have to have a good memory (or a lot of bluster, but that bluster would not solve a subpoena of a grand jury).  Giuliani is "phrasing it" more carefully as "recollection" which makes the difference between what happened, and what was told, sound more innocuous.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 16:33
Presidents are impeached. period. Then the senate can acquit as they did Bill Clinton.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 22:18
Anyone who says where we are definitively, absolutely, is fooling herself.  We are sailing into uncharted territory.  Question is, are there dragons or Kraken out there?  Never mind that in nature they are mythical beasts, we know that such things exist in real life.  There are the obvious Hitlers and Stalins, but there are also Chamberlins who declare peace in our time.  What would Jimmy Carter on foreign policy be like, if Reagan had not come along and broke the back of the Cold War?  Not all monsters are warmongers, others can be the Sirens who sing a song of false peace and lead us to the rocks, or Harpies who spew filth on everyone else.

I am surprised that the media is not bitching more about the electoral college (by which Trump was elected), but I am sure we are not done hearing about it, but it will be brought up again).  I think that the superdelegate system allowed for an "insider" like Hillary Clinton to get the nomination, (and allowed for a socialist like Sanders to become such a dominant outsider).  The media should not ignore how much the Clinton dynasty dominated the democrat(ic) process, in the anointment of the Successor.  It may be a failure of the Republican process that Trump became the Republican candidate (imo), but it was a failure in the Democrat(ic) process that the Democrats were clueless in presenting a viable alternative.  If the democrats were more concerned with strategy than anointment, they may have won in the electoral vote, but on the other hand, if Hillary was more concerned with strategy than anointment, she would not have been Hillary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 16:24
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

The test site that collapsed and killed North Koreans was the atomic bomb test site.  It was not of much use anymore, anyways.  Probably is geologically unstable by now.  I don't think that they tested missiles there, but maybe???  The North has successfully detonated nuclear bombs, so they probably don't really need nuclear tests to figure out how they work.  They probably could use more data on shrinking the bomb to ballistic missile payload size.

As far as I know NoKo did miniaturize warheads. And yes the fact that the launch site was a mess and the geological problems associated were troubling to the neighbors seems to be the actual reason for dismantling. It was going to happen but it looks good for PR. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2018 at 21:44
If I am a little grouchy, please forgive me.  I laugh at the human condition, but sometimes that only because if I didn't laugh I would cry:(  One thing I do like about Trump is that he at least has a sense of humor, which I am not sure Hillary did.  There was a comedian on the Fresh Air radio interview show that said he liked supporting politicians that had a sense of humor (this is probably in the W. Bush admin.), he liked Nixon because Nixon said that 'the last thing I would do, is go to China),' and sure enough that was the last thing he did.  He like JFK because JFK was asked, "What have you done for women?"  and Kennedy (a notorious womanizer) said, "not enough."  Trump was walking done the sidewalk with someone and saw a bum.  He said to his associate, "see that guy, he doesn't know how lucky he is, he is a hundred million dollars richer than me!"  With Trump, I worry that the joke is on us, but I do appreciate that he has a great sense of humor.

I don't know this, but I assume that the (missile) launch site(s) are different than the (bomb) test site(s).  The missile launch sites probably can be refurbished and restored and used over and over again.  Now for security reasons the launch and the bomb test sites may be close together, but the whole state is a "police" state, so I don't see why they would need to do that.  Of course, maybe in a shortage of information, I am just trying to rationalize my view of the whole thing. :P
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 02:47
Donald Trump and Kim Jong Un will meet tomorrow, Australian time, to hopefully settle tensions over North Korea's nuclearisation, and perhaps even see the reclusive country re-enter the world markets.

But Donald Trump, known for his outrageous lies and bully-boy tactics, needs to tread very carefully with Kim, who has seemingly grown a little closer to China in recent months. If tomorrows meeting goes badly, it could result in North Korea seeking closer ties with China, and maybe even Russia. This would in effect shift the balance of power from the west to north east and east, communist countries all.

Trump's tactics at the Paris Climate Control Accord, The Pan Pacific Trade talks, and now at the G6+1 are not the basis for Kim to trust him one iota. This in and of itself is good reason to fear that the talks will not result in the agreements that the rest of the western world hopes for.

One thing is for sure, whoever succeeds Trump as POTUS will have a world of unravelling to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 02:47
Well, the meeting's been held, and most reports express disappointment that the agreements didn't go anywhere near far enough. I would have thought that, having a North Korean leader finally at the table, the meeting and discussions would have kept going until some substantial agreements were reached.

Congratulations to Trump for getting this far, but the job is far from being done.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 04:24
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Well, the meeting's been held, and most reports express disappointment that the agreements didn't go anywhere near far enough. I would have thought that, having a North Korean leader finally at the table, the meeting and discussions would have kept going until some substantial agreements were reached.

Congratulations to Trump for getting this far, but the job is far from being done.

Yea let's wipe out 30 years of isolation in one meeting. Sorry the encroaching peace is so upsetting to you and the 11 anti-Trump rags that you ingest daily. Of course you have a problem with success. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 04:40
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

If I am a little grouchy, please forgive me.  I laugh at the human condition, but sometimes that only because if I didn't laugh I would cry:( 
And you have my sympathies bc I know what was like after two terms of Obama

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I don't know this, but I assume that the (missile) launch site(s) are different than the (bomb) test site(s).  The missile launch sites probably can be refurbished and restored and used over and over again.  Now for security reasons the launch and the bomb test sites may be close together, but the whole state is a "police" state, so I don't see why they would need to do that.  Of course, maybe in a shortage of information, I am just trying to rationalize my view of the whole thing. :P

Sometimes going back in the threads can be helpful. The subject of test sites or "launch sites" as they were called by the media when KJU was firing missiles over Japan and threatening to hit Guam, was noticed. 

Frequent earthquakes and crumbling around the No Korean launch sites was mentioned several times. New propagandist line is "test sites" which works better with the narrative of the Resistance. Clown
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2018 at 02:59
Donald Trump's slogan of "Make America Great Again"  is, in reality, making the USA more isolated from friends and allies across the world.

Withdrawing from the Climate Change Agreement, the Trans Pacific Trade Pact, the G7 and now the United Nations Human Rights Council, as well as imposing trade tariffs on almost everybody, including Canada, China and Australia, all have and will continue to lose America respect and support in the international community.

Quote From http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-20/donald-trump-a-threat-as-trust-hits-new-low-lowy-institute-finds/9879924

The 2018 report, released today, found Australians' trust in the US to act responsibly in the world dropped from a peak of 83 per cent in 2011 to just 55 per cent this year.

The UK, Japan, France and India all recorded higher levels of trust, with China, Russia and North Korea falling below.

Trump is obsessed with reversing everything done by Barak Obama, whether it was good and appropriate or not.

He's had talks with Kim Jon Un about the denuclearisation of the Korean Peninsula, but the agreements are vague and don't go anywhere far enough. Meanwhile, NoKo is getting friendlier with China and friendly overtures are being made to NoKo  by Russia.

When all of this is held up to the light, and seen in the context of Trump losing/firing so many of his professional diplomats, America's decline is alarming.

In his battle with the Special Commission of Inquiry he's created another monster by appointing "motor mouth" Giulianni as one of his legal advisors. Said Giulanni has created so many waves by "shooting from the lip" that he's becoming more of a danger to Trump, the latter being roundly described as the worst president seen in modern history.

Trump's actions, speeches on policies don't bode well for the USA.



Edited by toyomotor - 20 Jun 2018 at 03:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2018 at 03:46
America has long had a segment that is in love with isolation, so some people are going to be very much for what President Trump is doing.  Others are ambiguous, not for it but not against it either.  If you want to argue with these people, you need to show that their premises do not lead to (what they would consider) positive conclusions.  But cutbacks on State department? what would these no-nothings care?they don't want to have anything to do with the external world anyways.  
Some people think it is just great that the runoff from their chicken farm goes into the local river.  You should realize that a segment of the population is just here waiting for the rapture, why should they bother with stewardship of the land, or attempts for greater climate control?  By their own logic, they're not going to be here much longer.  Of course, maybe if our "civilization" was not so morally bankrupt, the fundamentalists (of all stamps) wouldn't believe that they were living in the end times.

Of course, there is a sort of "conservatism" that supports the kleptocracy of Putin and Russia, Russian jingoism, state'-sponsored religion, anti-gay legislation, financial support for people having larger families (still doesn't work in Russia, population is decreasing), some American fundamentalists might think that would be a good option to follow here, I have not heard that, but I think some might like to think that, get to an old time religion, and a medieval mindset that has been pasted by in the West.  Putin is a thug, but if you are someone like Donald Trump who is caught up in the checks and balances of the American constitutional system, being able to handle opposition like a thug can (such as assassinating reporters), is enviable.  Of course, Trump has not done that, and he won't do that either.  But no wonder he likes tyrants, he understands and sympathizes with them.
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