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Trump, the 'important' issues

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 15:12
[QUOTE=Vanuatu] [QUOTE=toyomotor] I reckon that millions of Americans will join the rest of the world in asking Trump;

1. Why did he demand a "private" discussion with Putin?

2. What was discussed in this private conversation?

3. Did he provide Putin with any concessions on the current sanctions?

4. Why did he back Putin over his own intelligence agencies?

5. Does Russia have any kompramat on Trump?

6. Why has he invited Putin to the US?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 To quote from Monty Python and the Holy Grail -Trump, I fart in your general direction.                                                                            He can to talk to Putin alone it's not unheard of, why can't he do it?
BETTER QUESTION   
What precedent allows for public access to private Executive meetings?

Trump can't hide cessions. Stories of Trump turning a US ambassador over to the Russians for questioning is more fake news. Hillary opined on the shame of Trump's lack of protection for ambassador. So a reminder of Benghazi and Hillary's failures there were bandied about today. That was real news though so, you didn't catch it.

The US Intelligence agencies, Dept of Justice and Congress have very little credibility and behind the curtain is the charade of a two party system.

Trump infuriates the Military Industrial Complex recently in the form of Obama's old team who allowed this so called Russian meddling. John Brenner and James Clapper, Rod Rosenstein, James Comey, Peter Strzok all appear as reactionary, politically motivated therefore untrustworthy and BIAS.

These are the CIA geniuses who said Iraq had chemical weapons and are sending our best and brightest into endless war and foreign nightmares.
And the Globalists and the Leftist Loonies want to abolish ICE and welcome Central American serial killers to our homeland. These entities were complicit in obtaining a FISA warrant based on a fake dossier funded by the DNC Clinton machine. The proof of the material was that it was posted on a Yahoo news feed by the DNC. Dirty nasty Hillary. Obama knew about hacking during the election but I guess he thought he had been flexible enough for Putin.

Russia could help in global situations like Syria more than any other country and they work with China why not the US? So we should look for points of commonality not hysterical accusations and chicken little type irrational,reactive negativity fueled by violence and FEAR!

Come back so I can taunt you a second time!
  [/
QUOTE]

Trump, as the so-called Leader of the Free World is expected to act with some diplomacy and rationality.

He's not acted with diplomacy or rationality since being inaugurated, in fact, every time he opens his mouth, he puts his foot in it. He's told so many lies now that no one can be sure of what he could claim next. His flip-flopping on what he's said and what he hasn't said are another indication of his instability.

He's turning allies into enemies and at the same time, trying to make friends of enemies. At the rate he's going, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that old friends and allies could withdraw that relationship, leaving the USA in isolation. The EU, in light of Trumps trade policies, is looking to Asia and imposing tariffs on  US goods. China's Li Xing Ping has said that China is prepared to match US trade tariffs dollar for dollar, if that's the way the US is going to continue.

Angela Merkel has reportedly said that Europe could no longer rely on US support in times of need. Many other leaders agree with he I would think.

I couldn't give a toss about his sexual peccadillos over the years, unless they compromise his ability to govern properly, and he's certainly not doing that.




Edited by toyomotor - 21 Jul 2018 at 15:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2018 at 00:31
Why would I want to eat dinner with Putin or CNN?  Why no, I would not want to be shot with a 9 mm or a 38.  None of the above.

No, Germany is not in Russia's pocket, they get oil from them.  It is not the same thing.  Merkel knows what it is like to live under Russia's thumb, she is from East Germany before reunification.  She is highly ethical in letting in the migrants, she may be wrong-headed in this, (although I wouldn't take Trump's word on this), but that is for her and her people to decide.  Not some loud mouthed, know-nothing from over seas who is trying to use Germany's 'situation' to whip up his fundamentals.

Trump's actions make perfect sense, if one assumes that he is looking to tear things down.  I think that some people think he is going to tear the things down that they want to be torn down, and that he will leave the rest standing, and he will 'make America great again.'  I don't think that it really works that way, just because you sing 'Hallieuah! doesn't mean the rapture is going to come.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2018 at 01:26
toyomotor, every time it gets down to it and you have to back up your accusations with facts we return to your PERSONAL DISLIKE of TRUMP.

It's fine, I personally disliked Obama and hated his policies. The difference is I can tell you why.

Allies? Like Germany planning to cut out Ukraine and other countries from the fees they would earn if the pipeline weren't diverted into the ocean?

So now tell me how's this "ally" planning for six years to open this pipeline without informing the US that Germany will no longer buy our Liquid Natural Gas, Germany will not be funded militarily by the US if they aren't buying our LNG. IMHO

-Merkel starts this while Obama is in office.

Please give some detail regarding the allies that Trump offended, isolated, horrified, constipated...

Finally after all the tears members of the UN cough of Billions $$ which will pay to help protect people in Syria maybe even Honduras! Reality check pay your fair share so called ALLIES!
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2018 at 01:34
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:


No, Germany is not in Russia's pocket, they get oil from them.  It is not the same thing.  Merkel knows what it is like to live under Russia's thumb, she is from East Germany before reunification.  She is highly ethical in letting in the migrants, she may be wrong-headed in this, (although I wouldn't take Trump's word on this), but that is for her and her people to decide.  Not some loud mouthed, know-nothing from over seas who is trying to use Germany's 'situation' to whip up his fundamentals.
Staggeringly naive and ill informed. 
What loud mouth? What a pathetic response for such grand rhetoric.

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Trump's actions make perfect sense, if one assumes that he is looking to tear things down.  I think that some people think he is going to tear the things down that they want to be torn down, and that he will leave the rest standing, and he will 'make America great again.'  I don't think that it really works that way, just because you sing 'Hallieuah! doesn't mean the rapture is going to come.

Well he hasn't sent a plane load of cash to the Iranians yet. Looney Leftists are ruining the country and lying has a whole new purpose for democrats it's called speaking.

 It was Obama who made me ill, every word he said, every stupid tv appearance every pro-Islam anti American sentiment, every kowtow to foreign murders every failing to act to ease racial tensions, every deception regarding his policies and his purpose made me ill daily. You'll learn to live with it.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2018 at 22:48
The plane load of cash to the Iranians was their money, held in hoc since the Iran crisis(?), part of the deal was that their money would be unfrozen, at least that is what I understand.  But, if you want to paint it with a broad brush and say that Obama just "gave" them the money, I will understand.  I will understand that you play as fast and loose with the truth as your idol.

TR said "speak softly and carry a big stick."  DT has never spoken softly in his life, always threatening people, especially allies, but he does it so much, people wonder if he means it at all, but then, because people wonder, one also wonders whether Trump is going to use force sometime just to prove he can, but not because it is a good idea.

Why are you still whining about Obama?  I didn't like him either, but that is water under the bridge.  PJ O'Rourke basically said that Hillary would have been a ordinary nightmare, whereas Trump would be an extraordinary.  You can call O'Rourke a liberal if you want, but it doesn't really fit.  It especially doesn't fit for a guy who described himself as a Republican Party Reptile.

Nobody cares for moderation or the middle ground anymore, the demagogues are ascendant in the Republican Party and the radicals in the Democratic party.  Just because people made a mistake in electing Obama, I don't see why they have to make a mistake in electing Trump.  The question is, how big of a mistake he will be/become?  Or perhaps, given lemons, we will have lemonade.  I don't dismiss the possibility of something going horribly right with Trump.  I also don't see that happening right now.  But I also don't see a chance of something going horribly right with Trump with this belief he seems to promote, that he walks on water, and his feet don't touch the ground.  Like Kim Jun On, Donald Trump cannot tolerate anything but total worship.  No wonder he is inclined to favor dictators, but also wants to a make a few bucks in doing so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 17:00
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

The plane load of cash to the Iranians was their money, held in hoc since the Iran crisis(?), part of the deal was that their money would be unfrozen, at least that is what I understand.  But, if you want to paint it with a broad brush and say that Obama just "gave" them the money, I will understand.  I will understand that you play as fast and loose with the truth as your idol.
Obama did it with his pen. If you are impressed that our government paid out money held in trust for the Iranian people to mullah terrorists then soak it in. Obama wanted a way to pay off Iran and then the EU would profit from the Iranian bribe. 
Why should the US government under BO care about the Hauge and their judgments or the UN and their sanctions? pffft.

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

TR said "speak softly and carry a big stick."  DT has never spoken softly in his life, always threatening people, especially allies, but he does it so much, people wonder if he means it at all, but then, because people wonder, one also wonders whether Trump is going to use force sometime just to prove he can, but not because it is a good idea.
Keep wishing for ill and you will make yourself sick. Is this the last resort of the liberal? 
Wishing for bad things?

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Why are you still whining about Obama?
Why didn't Obama go away like any self respecting president? 

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I didn't like him either, but that is water under the bridge.
It is not and it will only increase as Obama campaigns for the mid term elections. Democrats won't benefit much. He is a huge target. 
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I don't see why they have to make a mistake in electing Trump.  The question is, how big of a mistake he will be/become?  Or perhaps, given lemons, we will have lemonade.  I don't dismiss the possibility of something going horribly right with Trump.  I also don't see that happening right now.  But I also don't see a chance of something going horribly right with Trump with this belief he seems to promote, that he walks on water, and his feet don't touch the ground.  Like Kim Jun On, Donald Trump cannot tolerate anything but total worship.  No wonder he is inclined to favor dictators, but also wants to a make a few bucks in doing so.
You could be describing the messiah! The chosen one Obama! Whats the difference? Oh it's just Your personal dislike -valid. No facts to support these apocalyptic predictions. Your like an actress trying to get through an evening with Harvey but you can't escape the reality. Hence the Obama experience reversed and stricken.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 22:57
Harvey, the giant invisible rabbit?  With Jimmy Stewart??  Vanuatu, I have wanted to ask, did you vote for Obama, either the first time or the second time?  Your complaint against him seems to have a feeling of betrayal behind it.  Me, I didn't have any positive expectations of him, he was the most radical member of the Senate, and it seemed to me that his sole "virtue" was he hadn't done anything and he did not have a track record.

I am not wishing for ill, I am wishing for a cure, but I don't see any forthcoming.  But, I think I see Dershowitz's point, impeachment would probably create more problems than it would fix.  Wishing that Trump is a one term president runs into the problem of who the democrats would run in their current radical mood.  From both sides, it is a rush to see how far one can swing the pendulum in the 'favored' direction.  Colorado governorship is messed up that way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 15:28
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Harvey, the giant invisible rabbit?  With Jimmy Stewart??  Vanuatu, I have wanted to ask, did you vote for Obama, either the first time or the second time?  Your complaint against him seems to have a feeling of betrayal behind it.  Me, I didn't have any positive expectations of him, he was the most radical member of the Senate, and it seemed to me that his sole "virtue" was he hadn't done anything and he did not have a track record.

I am not wishing for ill, I am wishing for a cure, but I don't see any forthcoming.  But, I think I see Dershowitz's point, impeachment would probably create more problems than it would fix.  Wishing that Trump is a one term president runs into the problem of who the democrats would run in their current radical mood.  From both sides, it is a rush to see how far one can swing the pendulum in the 'favored' direction.  Colorado governorship is messed up that way.
Yea how was I betrayed?Stern Smile

Just looking back at the 2000 electoral map, wow democrats are so furious by now. I voted for GW in 2000 and I have not voted since. 
911 was not investigated properly in my opinion and the cost of 911 Commission shrouding information and refusing to share information is not helping me to support ANY candidate. I want someone to question 911 formally as a branch of government but then I think not this justice dept not this FBI. Don't plan to vote again until Obama's people are gone or something like a national discussion of the inconsistencies.

Obama had to help this country to get over the issue of race and he could have showed some compassion to the people in Chicago suffering bc of crime. What better legacy for the first black president?
Instead he is thinking bigger and it was about the world not just US. He didn't act skillfully in the job but unlike you I say he did a number of things that significantly hurt the country. Just 2016 alone! Oh he messed with regulations relating to business and industry, he politicized everything, he made me feel all kinds of angst like you feel bc of Trump. You still have not stated factually the damage Trump has done. You can tell me how everyone in the world hates him and how they won't work with US bc of Trump. That is not what is actually happening, in fact Trump is making the allies behave as allies and not dependents.

friends, should we expect the democrats to run a socialist this mid term?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2018 at 22:35
Trump is a shill for the Putin government.  When Mrs. Trump got Donny's report card, it said that Don does not play well with others.  Trump has been a force for Khaos.  Big promises, but poor performance, whether it be North Korea, Nato, or kissing up to Putin.  You should know who he works for by now, and it is not the American people.  He talked big about unity, but like any two-bit dictator, the unity he means is under his thumb.  But, I am sure Putin is happy with his "performance."

Actually Donald's performance has been quite strong, if you assume that the government is the enemy, which I don't but you, Vanuatu, might.  You like conspiracy theories, so why don't you look into some Putin conspiracy theories, such as the bombing of apartment blocks in Moscow, and blaming it on the Chechnyens, to whip up public support.  But, a nice KGB would never do that, would they?  Just like they wouldn't assassinate journalists.  That is why Trump's propaganda against the press is so worrisome.  It is almost like he would like to have here a dictatorship like Russia.  He has such adulation for strong men, probably because he is laundering their money.  I thought with Obama, we had the best government money could buy, now Trump is bought and paid for.

So, Vanuatu, you are one of the ones who didn't vote against (or for) Obama.  I am not sure about people who complain against a candidate, but didn't do anything during the election.  Of course, I am not free from that entirely, never having voted for a Bush (or against one either).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2018 at 23:35
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Trump is a shill for the Putin government.
More hysterical delusions- ZERO evidence. Collusion isn't what Manafort was on trial for and the judge won't even let prosecutors say  "Trump" bc it has nothing to do with Trump. So Mueller's big ace was actually a big stinky mess. Defense didn't even call witnesses, pathetic FBI.
and the word "collusion" isn't anywhere to be found in the Federal Law code.

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

When Mrs. Trump got Donny's report card, it said that Don does not play well with others.  Trump has been a force for Khaos.  Big promises, but poor performance, whether it be North Korea, Nato, or kissing up to Putin.  You should know who he works for by now, and it is not the American people.  He talked big about unity, but like any two-bit dictator, the unity he means is under his thumb.  But, I am sure Putin is happy with his "performance."
More misrepresentation alas not even a single factual, provable example. Trump is hitting Russia harder with sanctions than any president before him. Maybe you are happy to believe bullsh*t when it suits you? It's not chaos for the people recovering from Obama's attempted destruction of the white wage earner. I know Donald works for his ego but his ego is fueled by success in the work that matters to him and Americans. You wouldn't understand the rousing of the working class it's not a condition that the literati concerns itself with. 
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:



Actually Donald's performance has been quite strong, if you assume that the government is the enemy, which I don't but you, Vanuatu, might.
Of course not ! lol You love all the CNN liars trying to drag down the president, you don't care if they conspired with the democrats to keep Trump out of office, you approve of the lies!
 
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

You like conspiracy theories, so why don't you look into some Putin conspiracy theories, such as the bombing of apartment blocks in Moscow, and blaming it on the Chechnyens, to whip up public support.
Cut out the ANTIFA nuttiness, I never said Putin didn't do bad things. Liberals are just so prone to lie these days and twist the truth when lying is too obvious. So if I approve of the president then I must also love Putin hurting his people? Pffft!  Thumbs Down

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

But, a nice KGB would never do that, would they?  Just like they wouldn't assassinate journalists.  That is why Trump's propaganda against the press is so worrisome.  It is almost like he would like to have here a dictatorship like Russia.  He has such adulation for strong men, probably because he is laundering their money.  I thought with Obama, we had the best government money could buy, now Trump is bought and paid for.
No it's nothing like that at all but you are buying boatloads of Bullsh*t  but its just an imagining, this evil alliance with Russia.  OTHERWISE EVIDENCE PLEASE??
Trump haters are the only ones claiming Russia is our biggest concern funny, Obozo told Mitt, actually laughed at Mitt about foreign policy and the threat of Russian right before Putin moved in on Crimea lol. 

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

So, Vanuatu, you are one of the ones who didn't vote against (or for) Obama.  I am not sure about people who complain against a candidate, but didn't do anything during the election.  Of course, I am not free from that entirely, never having voted for a Bush (or against one either).
So, fransicosan, I am sure that my second, erm first amendment rights are not negated bc I didn't vote for either unacceptable candidate. Forget the silly cliche that never meant anything. 

From "The Hill" not exactly a bastion of conservative thought.


Edited by Vanuatu - 17 Aug 2018 at 00:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2018 at 20:36
Bad things like cheat on taxes?  Bad things like four or five bankruptcies?  Bad things like assault women?  What bad things do you think Putin did?  Do you remember the Cold War?  When Republicans (rightfully) though that Russia was our greatest concern.  Putin remembers the Cold War, his favorite Beatles song is "Yesterday," he wants to get back to the good old days, when USSR was feared, and Stalin remembered fondly.

No, I am not sure that Trump isn't a new means to an old game for Putin.  As far as evidence is concerned, Putin is Putin and Trump is Trump.  That says a lot, but as far as specifics are concerned, you are asking for evidence at the beginning of the game, when things are in the process of being discovered, and aren't public knowledge.  The first step is Manafort.  We will see what happens after that.  And no, I don't think Mueller is out of line or on a witch hunt.  Witches these days are a protected species in the University.

Things like Trump's bankruptcies, his absent income tax files, his three marriages (I guess like Elizabeth Taylor, he really believes in marriage;) ), you know, a leopard like that doesn't change his spots.  I don't understand why you think that a man "too big to fail" is going to be a messiah for the economy.  Economically, things seem to be better, but we also have a deficit 'dove' in the White House right now.  Also, I am quite concerned of how the trade war will bite us on the backside.  It seems like a shuffling of money from one group to another, but whether it creates any actual wealth, I am not so certain.

When Trump and Putin met, there was a big dog and a little dog, and Trump was the little dog.  The advantage of being the big dog, is that he, the alpha male gets to f-ck all the other dogs.  It doesn't really matter why Trump was cowed (and compromised) by Putin, it is just matters that he was.

I understand, you are trying to save your electoral virginity for the right man, I just don't think that saving it, does any good for the rest of us.  You can preach all you want from your soapbox, but I am not sure you have any skin in the game as far as the political process is concerned.  It may be a choice between the lesser of evils.  And yes, the lesser of evils is still evil, but I think that representation in a democratic Republic is overemphasized.  The purpose of democracy is to have participation, and before, during and after, dialogue and discourse.  You want to skip the vegetables and just eat the desert, that is fine, any wisdom you have comes from your 'enlightened' status, which means it isn't relevant to the sausage-making process of politics.  Politics is like sausage, you don't want to see either in the process of them being made.  I am not worried about your rights, as a fellow citizen, I am worried about your responsibilities, which you "have a right" to neglect if you want, but that doesn't help anyone.

I haven't looked at your clip on the hill yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2018 at 04:00
By now there should be no doubt that I don't like Trumps public persona.

I've grown tired of commenting on his lies, exaggerations and unpresidential behaviour, but, on this is in his favour, he's unpredictable.

Kim Jong Un, himself unpredictable, may be wary of what Trump could do if he, Kim, doesn't take some serious steps toward denuclearisation.

Some of the potential scenarios mentioned recently include-
  • Upping the sanctions on North Korea;
  • A Naval blockade to prevent China and Russia from supplying NoKo;
  • A missile strike on selected military targets; and
  • Invasion of NoKo.
The last two would fall under the category of Last Resort, and the fear is that Russia and/or China could intercede on NoKo's side, however, the USA is falling further and further away from being the worlds "Superpower" as China is rapidly catching up, and this would effect decision making on the part of the USA.

On the other hand, after all of the bugle blowing over the Trump/Kim talks, Trump would be made to appear weak and foolish if Kim does nothing about his nuclear arsenal, the USA looking to be a toothless tiger.

The USA and it's allies cannot simply sit back and watch, as other pots are also close to boiling, such as China v Taiwan and the East China Sea, China and the South China Sea islands militarisation, and Chinas increasing military (Naval) strength.




Edited by toyomotor - 19 Aug 2018 at 04:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3 hours 44 minutes ago at 23:21
A blockade is an act of war, and would not be tolerated by China in their sphere of interest.  
 Nor would a full out invasion.  China generally has a much different theory from us on how to use the military.  We generally advocate proportional response, and if casualties are too high, we don't do it or do it a different way, (cruise missile, predator drone, etc).  China does not do that, (or at least they used to not do that).  Traditionally, they have been like North Korea whose attitude is that loosing 10% of its population is acceptable losses.  Heck, maybe 50 % of the population if it is the "right" 50 %  Now maybe we are buddy-buddy enough to China these days, that they wouldn't commit, but maybe their view of themselves and the world depends on client states on the border (Burma, Mongolia), and maybe they would commit.  In any case, it is doubtful that we would want to find out, particularly the hard way.

Both Russia and China are connected by land to North Korea.
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