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We Never Saw it Coming

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franciscosan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2018 at 06:19
If you say there will not be sufficient resources, and I say that you are alarmist, then that is not an ad hominem account.

What do you mean, "merely posted facts" are you a demographer?  "not sufficient resources" is not a fact, it is a value judgment.

So the population is a number, 6 or so billion, what it _means_ is an entirely different question.  Like I said, I am concerned about animals, which people tend to think of as superfluous.

The technology of _manned_ vehicles is still undergoing work, so yes, unmanned vehicles need further work.  But, in the time of one unmanned fatality, there has probably been 1000 manned fatalities, most due to operator error.  The question is not whether unmanned vehicles are safe, the question is, are they _more_ safe, and safe enough for us to emotionally relinquish our illusion of control? 
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toyomotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2018 at 10:23
There you go again, more ad hominem.

Quote I don't know, I am just responding to your sky-is-falling philosophy.

And you're wrong again! That's not my philosophy at all, I merely posted facts, which you rarely do.

An unmanned vehicle has recently been involved in a fatal crash, that should prove that the technology needs further work. Nor am I against autonomous vehicles etc, per se, but I'd like to know that the technology was safe and couldn't be hacked.

As for the population, Google it yourself, it isn't that hard.
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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franciscosan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2018 at 07:26
"Scenario:

The world population is increasing. Prophecies are already in the making that in the mid 2020's there will not be sufficient resources with which to feed the people. Those people have obviously not heard about Africa, India and even some parts of China."

I don't know, I am just responding to your sky-is-falling philosophy.  If you are wrong about the population problem (like The Population Bomb was), then I wonder what else you are wrong about.  Clap

and I see you as opening the door which I merely walked in.  You were the one bringing up population.

I know, autonomous vehicles are coming, and they will save lives.  Everybody thinks they're a good driver, fact is, 50% are below average.  and that doesn't mean the ones above average are that good either. t don't like the idea of autonomous vehicles, but the way most people drive, autonomous vehicles would be better, plus they don't drive stoned or drunk.  Give it a little time, and autonomous drivers will be better than all but the best.  Probably the hardest thing for them to deal with is human unpredictability.  In other words, stupid things that humans will do.



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toyomotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2018 at 14:21
Franciscosan

And just how does all of the above relate to unmanned vehicles, vessels and aircraft?

As far as I can see, you've gone of on another of your well known tangents.Dead
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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franciscosan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2018 at 11:28
There is an article in a recent Smithsonian about Paul Ehrlich's "The Population Bomb" and how third world tyrants used it as an excuse to go after civil rights activists.  "The Population Bomb" was wrong in 1968, but in crying fire, a lot of people got burned.  Famines tend to be caused by oppressive regimes, not lack of food.  Population may complicate things, but not what alarmists think it means.

With population, I worry about animals, and pressure on habitats.  Do rhinos have a right to exist?  Or is it another species that we need to just kiss goodbye?  I would prefer a few less people and a few more rhinos.  Of course, not having an expanding economy causes other problems.
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Vanuatu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2018 at 13:18
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote I do agree this is about money and power. There won't be jobs. People will be used in some way, it will come down to earning one's right to exist.

Would you agree that in some cases, many poor buggers have lost that right already?
Of course but when it happens in developed countries who is going to feed them/us? 
No one right?
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Scenario:

The world population is increasing. Prophecies are already in the making that in the mid 2020's there will not be sufficient resources with which to feed the people. Those people have obviously not heard about Africa, India and even some parts of China.

Computerisation has taken over control of factory, manufacturing, farming and many other workers functions. Millions of more people are unemployed, homeless and have no income, because the governments cannot raise enough taxes to pay an overbearing welfare bill, they are starving and crime is rife.

Police and law enforcement are cut back, as is the Armed Forces Budgets, and then it arrives in full force-ANARCHY!!
Sounds about right. 
Uber idiot "Human safety operator" was a convicted, violent felon, seen on dash cam looking down at the moment he killed women on bicycle. So glad FaceBook is running things now.
 

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2018 at 21:26
Quote I do agree this is about money and power. There won't be jobs. People will be used in some way, it will come down to earning one's right to exist.

Would you agree that in some cases, many poor buggers have lost that right already?

Scenario:

The world population is increasing. Prophecies are already in the making that in the mid 2020's there will not be sufficient resources with which to feed the people. Those people have obviously not heard about Africa, India and even some parts of China.

Computerisation has taken over control of factory, manufacturing, farming and many other workers functions. Millions of more people are unemployed, homeless and have no income, because the governments cannot raise enough taxes to pay an overbearing welfare bill, they are starving and crime is rife.

Police and law enforcement are cut back, as is the Armed Forces Budgets, and then it arrives in full force-ANARCHY!!
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Vanuatu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2018 at 13:46
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Greed, avarice, power. That's what it's all about.

Making vehicles autonomous serves two main purposes, IMO.

1. Does away with the human factors such as wages etc; human errors; inefficiency.

2. The person/people controlling the machines will control manufacturing, markets and eventually, the economy.

On the other side of the coin, all of the workers laid off due to the implementation of autonomous technology will not be able to gain employment, as robots take over their roles. And there is technology, if not now, on the horizon which will take over just about every human function in the work force, even in medicine. 

How to support all of the unemployed? I don't think that governments are looking that far into the future, but they should be.
 
How to tamper proof the technology-and I mean tamper proof? See above.

To date, whatever measures have been made in securing computerisation have been just as quickly undone by hackers, in the main. Just imagine a high tech unmanned semi-trailer gone rogue on the highways, or a number of them simultaneously, cities and town could be held to ransom, the possibilities are many.

By all means built autonomous machines which can go to war, but, as every day transport, no.


Humans can't stop building things! Until those "things" start pushing back.
 
Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates and FaceBook- boy have been proposing a "Living Wage." They don't see a future where people have jobs and pensions or even social security.

I do agree this is about money and power. There won't be jobs. People will be used in some way, it will come down to earning one's right to exist.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2018 at 13:04
Greed, avarice, power. That's what it's all about.

Making vehicles autonomous serves two main purposes, IMO.

1. Does away with the human factors such as wages etc; human errors; inefficiency.

2. The person/people controlling the machines will control manufacturing, markets and eventually, the economy.

On the other side of the coin, all of the workers laid off due to the implementation of autonomous technology will not be able to gain employment, as robots take over their roles. And there is technology, if not now, on the horizon which will take over just about every human function in the work force, even in medicine. 

How to support all of the unemployed? I don't think that governments are looking that far into the future, but they should be.
 
How to tamper proof the technology-and I mean tamper proof? See above.

To date, whatever measures have been made in securing computerisation have been just as quickly undone by hackers, in the main. Just imagine a high tech unmanned semi-trailer gone rogue on the highways, or a number of them simultaneously, cities and town could be held to ransom, the possibilities are many.

By all means built autonomous machines which can go to war, but, as every day transport, no.


It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Vanuatu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2018 at 12:05
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Some time ago, on another thread, I cautioned against the use of computer controlled, unmanned vehicles, vessels and aircraft, due to the possibility of them being hacked.

In this case, there's no evidence of hacking, but a warning that the technology is not yet perfected, if it ever will be!

I read recently on New Atlas that, in the US, they're ready to unleash unmanned semi-trailers onto the highways. Not a good idea. 

There will always be circumstances that arise, which require human intervention in the blink of an eye.

War fighters now, or in the very near future, will have access to unmanned submarines, warships, aircraft and possibly tanks. If they save human lives, all well and good, but if they get hacked.........

-wow, had not heard about the plan for semi trucks. Hmm. Of course they will be hacked!
 -surrender control of our planet to machines!

The only way I can imagine the blind driver not getting killed is if it's on a set course, enclosed rail.
This is really stupid. 
toyomotor, how did it all get so absurd?
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2018 at 10:20
Some time ago, on another thread, I cautioned against the use of computer controlled, unmanned vehicles, vessels and aircraft, due to the possibility of them being hacked.

In this case, there's no evidence of hacking, but a warning that the technology is not yet perfected, if it ever will be!

I read recently on New Atlas that, in the US, they're ready to unleash unmanned semi-trailers onto the highways. Not a good idea. 

There will always be circumstances that arise, which require human intervention in the blink of an eye.

War fighters now, or in the very near future, will have access to unmanned submarines, warships, aircraft and possibly tanks. If they save human lives, all well and good, but if they get hacked.........
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2018 at 08:11
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-selfdriving-uber/self-driving-uber-car-kills-arizona-woman-crossing-street-idUSKBN1GV296

Self-driving Uber car kills Arizona woman crossing street

So-called robot cars, when fully developed by companies including Uber, Alphabet Inc and General Motors Co, are expected to drastically cut down on motor vehicle fatalities and create billion-dollar businesses. But Monday’s accident underscored the possible challenges ahead for the promising technology as the cars confront real-world situations involving real people.

We are not the Jetsons yet. 
Behold the prognostication-





Edited by Vanuatu - 21 Mar 2018 at 08:13
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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