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What Do We Really Know?

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Vanuatu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2019 at 05:25
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote All systems exist as as subsets of larger systems, and what are systems? The first biological creatures differentiated rough/smooth or uniform, nonuniform etc.  That began the creation of multiple systems. Patterns of patterns and systems of patterns. All life is pushing boundaries and those who break boundaries are at least temporarily edging out the competition. Our earth, the biological system, offers us a connection to a unified field of information. You could call it spirit and it would be accurate.

That may well be the case on Earth, but it ain't necessarily so if we assume that other inter-galactic life forms exist.

The evolution of earthly creatures has been tracked, studied and annotated by many recognised scientists, but we won't know about other life forms until one is found by humankind.

I don't know if other intergalactic life forms exist, but I'm not prepared to say that they don't.


Yes and intergalactic suggests at least a location that we can observe bc rules of matter have been understood to such an extent. 

We can't jump out of the system that we operate in unless we are using something other than matter like thought
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 01:06
Thinking and being are the same.  (Parmenides of Elea)
thinking is being (thinking is is).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 01:15
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Thinking and being are the same.  (Parmenides of Elea)
thinking is being (thinking is is).

Quote I think, therefore I am.-René Descartes
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 14:06
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Thinking and being are the same.  (Parmenides of Elea)
thinking is being (thinking is is).

Quote I think, therefore I am.-René Descartes
Oui monsieur. 
All these philosophers got pieces of the puzzles and humans have a grasp on the hidden reality very early on in civilizations IMHO. If we all have access to a collective field, a place that is accessed through desire, prayer or simple meditation then we can seed any reality that we like. The basic processes of evolution(thought experiments) will support successful endeavors in the macro, world, universe or the micro, individuated consciousness. 
Something as over done as a giraffes neck found a niche because of profitability. Bending light to use as cloaking device could be called an evolution in technology and the potential profitability is off the charts. New technologies affect the probability of future events but we don't see the picture fully unless its in our material reality.

What purpose would the intelligent life serve? Are we sending ourselves a message from the future?
I think it very likely that there are other life forms and that we will encounter them before we blow everything up.

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 23:55
Just in the past few days, Astronomers have received short bursts of radio signals from outer space.

They haven't pinpointed exactly where from yet, not do they know the meaning, but they are not ruling out an alien life form.
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 04:10
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Just in the past few days, Astronomers have received short bursts of radio signals from outer space.

They haven't pinpointed exactly where from yet, not do they know the meaning, but they are not ruling out an alien life form.
Yes the first signal happened a year after CHIME observatory was set up in Canada, not even six months later we have more signals. I am glad to see these developments, I think :)


Edited by Vanuatu - 11 Jan 2019 at 04:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 15:24
Yes, I obviously missed the date when these transmissions were first heard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 01:31
Hawking thought that aliens would be hostile and more advanced than us.  It could be like the Indians meeting the pilgrims, and getting smallpox.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 07:10
And we all know how that ended, don't we?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 14:46
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 16:54
There is a show on FNX(??) (first nations channel?) called Indians and Aliens.

Cool pictures.  But I see nothing that I can sink my teeth into, and chew.  (nothing substantial).  It would be nice if they actually gave a citation for Black Elk, and would pronounce 'Pleiades' correctly.  But neither of those make or break the report. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 12:40
Quote The laws of physics are uniform for the entire universe, now we might not know all the laws, but astronomically and physically, they are uniform.
Nope. They are not. They conform to conditions the universe prpvides and whilst our sciences are getting quite good at predictions and explanations, there are many anomalies we don't understand/ Even basic arithmetic has recently been criticised for basing itself on rules that are, basically, wrong. I don't know why. To me two plus two equals four and it works well enough for my needs - probably yours too seeing as you perceive a conformal steady state existence. But our science is based on what we understand thus far. There is plenty out there we don't know or understand which will affect the rules we currently apply. After all, physics seemed complete, conformal, and logical when Isaac Newton realised sitting under an apple tree in a gravitic field had potential consequences.
 
But consider the work of Einstein. His universe is fundamentally dynamic and mutable, since everything is relative and influenced by existence around it. Thus the mass of Earth warps space in such a way that gravity results. It predicts situations called singularities where physics as we understand it breaks down completely. Worse still, consider quantum mechanics. On the small scale, the universe becomes weird and unpredictable, a mass of conflicting and in some cases 'illegal' situations (such as partickles being in two places at once). The universe appears quite ordinary on the scale we observe it, but our observations are limited by our perceptions, preconceptions, communication, and lifespan. We don't observe all of it. Did you know that our galaxy has another galaxy orbiting it made largely of dark matter? No-one can actually see and no-one yet fully understands the implications.
 
And what is the next stage of understanding? A simple extrapolation of existing knowledge or another quantum leap of new laws, equations, television documentaries, and baffled students at universities? To say it won't happen is rather foolish. To say what will happen is probably foolish. Nothing dates faster than predictions of the future.
Quote  Chemistry is uniform, and chemistry is divided into two parts, inorganic and organic chemistry.  Organic chemistry involves carbon which is exceptionally versatile in forming long complex molecules.  Silicon is a distant second as far as forming molecules for life... 
...Again, Silicon might be a possible basis for life, but it is nowhere as versatile as carbon.
that's true for the conditions and chemical emphasis we find on Earth. Another world, with different conditions, different degrees of chemical sources, may well be suitable for life. I do agree that so far it appears chemistry in the galaxy is optimised around certain interactions. This would however be simply circumstantial.

Quote Gravity, stellar fusion, magnetism, spectra, as far as we can see (both physically and conceptually) are uniform.  Physics sets the stage for chemistry, chemistry sets the stage for biology (as we know it).
Gravity is not uniform in the slightest. It is affected by velocity for one thing. The faster you go, the heavier you get, and I'm not talking about momentum, there is a real property of 'drag' caused by mass under motion.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8 hours 31 minutes ago at 00:57
And yet, we have _an_ understanding of what a star is, what a planet is, what a galaxy is.  That is not to say that there are not exceptions to the rule, or tweaks of the rule, but spectrum analysis basically works, doppler shift analysis basically works, we may refine it, but we don't throw it out and throw up our hands in dismay of ever learning anything.

Newton is still pretty good for predicting orbits.  With Mercury, Newton is inadequate.  Mercury because it is close to the sun's gravity well (in the well?), doesn't follow Newton's predictions, or so I recall.

See I would say that gravity is fairly uniform, it is just not separate from velocity.  I imagine there is a relationship between mass and velocity.

recently saw a youtube video that argued, amongst other things, that physics constants are not entirely constant.  That sounds interesting, but that does not mean there is not some underlying regularity.  Does gravity slowly decline, increase, fluctuate?  I am not arguing that the rules don't change and our understanding with them, I am arguing that there are rules, there is order, and science depends on order.  That doesn't mean that there isn't chaos.  And that doesn't even mean that we can ultimately overcome chaos. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 47 minutes ago at 01:41
The constant speed of light keeps us wondering whether the universe is finite. If the universe follows the biological patterns in nature then it must iterate on itself. Every cell that's ever been observed builds patterns upon iteration and oscillation. That is the cell's opportunity for differentiation and growth or evolution. The natural world is surely patterned on the larger universal paths of growth only scaled down and observable. How would the speed of light be constant without a finite system?

http://https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/10/14/ask-ethan-is-the-universe-finite-or-infinite/#5a4a10024967
From constraints arising from both the cosmic microwave background and the large-scale structure of the Universe combined, we can conclude that if the Universe is finite and loops back in on itself, it needs to be at least 250 times the extent of the part we observe. Because we live in three dimensions, 250 times the radius means (250)3 times the volume, or more than 15 million times as much space. But, big as that is, it still isn't infinite. A lower bound of the Universe being at least 11 trillion light years in all directions is tremendous, but it's still finite.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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