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what is your attutide toward the history ?

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carolgreen270 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 Sep 2012 at 03:27
what is your attutide toward the history ?share with us and tell us your idea.
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fantasus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2012 at 16:29
Originally posted by carolgreen270 carolgreen270 wrote:

what is your attutide toward the history ?share with us and tell us your idea.
A bit difficult to answer such a short question about our general view, but I shall try.
I guess the most fascinating is when events are interelared, rather than when we see them more as "isolated".
And I think "general" or "grand" history - over large time spans and areas should have a prominent place - though local history or history about "small" topics  has too.
And I think it is to be preferred there is a "principle of possible indeterminism". If You don´t like that expression, it means events could often have turned out in another way. The copurse of history was not from the beginning the absolute only possible one. On the other hand events that once could have been avoided may at some "point of no return" become inevitable. I hope that was understandable and not too trivial.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2014 at 08:42
Some clever bloke once said, "Those who ignore history are bound to repeat its mistakes", or something like that.
 
In the book, None Dare Call it Conspiracy, the author questions why mistakes of the past have been so often repeated by US administrations, especially in the area of placating communist states.
 
He claims that governments, such as the US, are so far in debt to foreign banks, that the bankers exert influence over government policies, on the basis that "He who pays the Piper, calls the tune".
 
An interesting view, worthy of further consideration.
 
What do others think?
 
 
 


Edited by toyomotor - 09 May 2014 at 16:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote repeatsitself Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 22:33
Attitude, well there are areas where I do feel skeptic but mostly, I can only express admiration and respect to the historical milestones that shaped what we are today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jaymeeeezworlds Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2015 at 17:50
i have been a skeptic about certain things in history that has been a lot of chatter about, somethings that one may believe happened but others may have proof of a different event.......its a very long but i must say that nd u need to have a lot of focus to pinpoint all the small things in it Star
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2015 at 23:54
history is where the bodies are buried (and who buried them).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2015 at 04:15
History like science is an intellectual pursuit always in need of further clarification.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2015 at 04:56
History can have an intellectual component, but it is not purely an intellectual pursuit.  
Read or listen to Henry Kissinger's 'On China.'  He was able to figure out how the Chinese
thought, and with Nixon, was able to unlock relations between the US and China, which in
turn showed that the Communist block was not monolithic and thus showed that the
China was a separate entity from the Soviet Union, often at odds with each other, historically
and in the modern era.  Next thing you know, trying to keep with the Americans, leads 
the Soviet Union to collapse.  That's practical, and that's not just intellectualism.  But, you
are right, if you mean that history does not stand still, but it is not just clarification.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2015 at 08:50
"History can have an intellectual component, but it is not purely an intellectual pursuit." 

I suppose there is a great deal of intuition and imagination that goes into both science and the study of history.  Being able to emotionally connect to any subject is highly underrated skill.  I may need additional clarification if that is not what you are suggesting?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2015 at 02:29
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

History can have an intellectual component, but it is not purely an intellectual pursuit.  
Read or listen to Henry Kissinger's 'On China.'  He was able to figure out how the Chinese
thought, and with Nixon, was able to unlock relations between the US and China, which in
turn showed that the Communist block was not monolithic and thus showed that the
China was a separate entity from the Soviet Union, often at odds with each other, historically
and in the modern era.  Next thing you know, trying to keep with the Americans, leads 
the Soviet Union to collapse.  That's practical, and that's not just intellectualism.  But, you
are right, if you mean that history does not stand still, but it is not just clarification.

I'm not quite so sure about Kissinger's intellectualism. My read from his book was that he whitewashed himself of horrible miscalculation and debacle that was Vietnam, in  a rather incourageous way, and then also went on to describe Chinese in rather stereotypical terms- "they don't think like us. They ain't like us". 

I'd say a more dispassionate history would say- they ain't much different, in most important ways. Take a look at what is going on in China today: the pursuit of money, cars, and shopping malls, naughty dealings within officialdom, nationalistic hubris, income inequality.....could be CNN News, couldn't it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2015 at 05:50
I listened to "On China" on books on CD.  16 CDs, unabridged, cost me $1 as a library discard.
Listened to it driving around in the car, sometimes rewinding.  Kissinger's intellectual ability
impressed me.  He started with a history of China, worked his way from the first emperor,
until his last visit to China.  Of course much of what he wrote about was the interaction between
the West and China.  Opium wars, boxer rebellion, etc.  He does talk about Vietnam a little, saying that America did not understand Vietnamese nationalism.  He also talks about China and its interaction with
Vietnam and the Khemer Rouge.  But Vietnam is not the point of the book, and so I don't know
what exactly you are blaming him for.  I'm just saying, I don't know.  The story I listened to
was China, not (directly) Vietnam.

They ain't much different?  4000 year history, Middle Kingdom, Confusianism, Taoism, Buddhism, and sweep everything away with the great leap forward, the cultural revolution, etc.  But if you mean that they eat and excrete much like we do, well you are probably right.  The devil (or God) is in the details, and I think that you are painting with a fairly broad brush.  It seems to me that it is when we think people are the same, that we assume that they must be like us.  We are in danger of loosing who they are in our own egotism.  Understanding that there are basic similarities, it is when we look at the differences that we can see them not through our preconceived notions but maybe, just maybe, as they really are.  It is a naive opinion, I know, but still I think it is worth the attempt.  As the French say, "Viva la differance!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2015 at 09:34
Without going into a lot of psuedo intellectual waffle, we are all a part of history.
 
Our past, and that of others, in fact the entire earth and its inhabitants is history.
 
Tomorrow, today will be history, and that's about it.
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2015 at 04:28
To be clever.... We are a part/apart of history. ;)

There is a vagueness to "now," for example, the formation and growth of ISIS is not a matter of history, but of current events.  It is still in the process of unfolding, we are not yet detached enough to understand the currents of the events.  ;) The Obama presidency is in a weird place between history and current events.  It is still in process, but being in the lame duck phase, there is a sense of it already being history, or over in the minds of many Americans.  The easy, flashy stuff has already been done, they've alienated many of their friends, and still have their opponents.  That one reason why Presidents in the later part of their second term concentrate on foreign policy.  It is something they can do with minimal fight from congress.  But my point is, is that not everything is really "history" (except in a trivial sense), there is this weird area between history and now where one sees the phenomena, but can't quite yet see the patterns.  That weird area is called "current events" or "news"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PeaceB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2015 at 11:49
History is like an "identity-making" factory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert Baird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2016 at 17:29
Yes, an identity which people accept no responsibility for having wrought upon other life forms more noble and decent than we are. As Lao-Tzu (Probably not the first to note it) said in The Art of War, you must practice propaganda upon your enemies or targets, before, during and after hostilities erupt into murder and mayhem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert Baird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2016 at 17:36
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

To be clever.... We are a part/apart of history. ;)

There is a vagueness to "now," for example, the formation and growth of ISIS is not a matter of history, but of current events.  It is still in the process of unfolding, we are not yet detached enough to understand the currents of the events.  ;) The Obama presidency is in a weird place between history and current events.  It is still in process, but being in the lame duck phase, there is a sense of it already being history, or over in the minds of many Americans.  The easy, flashy stuff has already been done, they've alienated many of their friends, and still have their opponents.  That one reason why Presidents in the later part of their second term concentrate on foreign policy.  It is something they can do with minimal fight from congress.  But my point is, is that not everything is really "history" (except in a trivial sense), there is this weird area between history and now where one sees the phenomena, but can't quite yet see the patterns.  That weird area is called "current events" or "news"

In the first term in office (as Reagan said) a President can do nothing - the money is already committed to programs he or she cannot easily change (if at all). In fact the President is a talking-head popularity contest winner and whiner. I believe I have quotes from every American President who was allowed to speak (some were not) to the effect that they had no power and the shadow government ruled the roost. My favorite is a letter by Jefferson to Lafayette talking about how the "rogues would be uppermost". Jimmy Carter was a good person and his main man in Atlanta (Gerald Rafshoon) went to Washington to try to help make a change. He found the bureaucrats would not assist in any change, he went home.
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