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What is your local monster?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2009 at 12:07
Nice story Birddog, and more importantly - enjoy the brew! It's my last day at work and I'll not be far behind you Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2009 at 17:34
A person took a photo in the lake Storsjon, in the province of Jamtland in Sweden, in september 15 of something he do not know what it was. Some people speculate it could be the famous Storsjoodjuret (the Storsjo Monster) which has been discussed earlier in this thread.




Pic from: http://op.se/ostersund/1.1384869
Photo: Janne Henningson



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2009 at 23:57
One famous animal in Sweden is the Skvader who became known already in the 19th century when it was first encountered in Northern Sweden. Today one can see a couple of stuffed specimens, one in Sundsvall, Northern Sweden  and one in Stockholm.


Pic from: http://minspiration.blogspot.com/2009_01_01_archive.html






Edited by Carcharodon - 26 Sep 2009 at 23:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2009 at 18:42
Then we have the king of all the sea monsters, namely The Midgard Serpent (Jormundgand) which encircles the whole world and which is the sworn enemy of the Norse God Thor. The two of them will meet a final time at the end of time in the gigantic cataclysm of Ragnarok.

But they already met a couple of times before: One time Thor was out fishing together with the giant Hymer. Then he caught the Serpent on his hook and line. But Hymer got so afraid, when he saw the monster, that he cut the line, letting the beast go back into the sea again.


Thor catching Jormundgand


Pic from: http://charsite.bravehost.com/valhalla-film.html




Edited by Carcharodon - 10 Oct 2009 at 18:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2011 at 11:45
Another beast from the folklore and with deep roots in time is the werewolf. Werevolves figures in several local myths here in Sweden. There were several ways a person could become a werewolv: he could become one by free will and with the aid of magic, he could be one because some curse, or he could become one if his mother had tried to give birth without pain.
 
The Swedish werewolf mostly looked like a big ordinary wolf but was wilder. Some werewolves had no tail, but instead they ran on three legs and held up the fourth as a tail.
 
Still today some of the old fear for wolves and werewolves can be seen in our society when people react in a superstitiuos way when ordinary wolves happen to be seen in their neighbourhood.


Edited by Carcharodon - 19 May 2011 at 11:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2011 at 12:38
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:


Still today some of the old fear for wolves and werewolves can be seen in our society when people react in a superstitiuos way when ordinary wolves happen to be seen in their neighbourhood.
Eh, no. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2011 at 12:55
The nearest monster to me is called locally "The Honey Island Swamp Monster." It has reportedly been both seen and heard in the swamp bordering the lower Pearl River in Louisiana.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey_Island_Swamp_monster

Edited by opuslola - 19 May 2011 at 12:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2011 at 13:30
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:


Still today some of the old fear for wolves and werewolves can be seen in our society when people react in a superstitiuos way when ordinary wolves happen to be seen in their neighbourhood.
Eh, no. 
 
Indeed yes. One can see such reactions quite often.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seko- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2011 at 14:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2011 at 15:55
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:


Still today some of the old fear for wolves and werewolves can be seen in our society when people react in a superstitiuos way when ordinary wolves happen to be seen in their neighbourhood.
Eh, no. 
 
Indeed yes. One can see such reactions quite often.
Bullcrap - although many anti-hunt people often bring superstitions up in feeble attempts to belittle their opponents. But I assume you have plenty of serious references supporting your claims?


Edited by Styrbiorn - 19 May 2011 at 15:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2011 at 02:02
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by DukeC DukeC wrote:

 going back to when just the First Nations were here.
 
According to folklorist and classic schoolar Adrienne Mayor some of the tales about monsters and similar among the First Nations (and in other places in the world) were inspired by fossils that now and then erode out of cliffs and become visible:
 
 
 
See also the thread Your countrys largest animal? about this.
 
 


Interesting. It may be that in some cases fosiles inspire natives. However, I know another source: earthquakes! That has been the inspiration of many monsters in Japan and in the Pacific coasts of the Americas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2011 at 02:06
When I was a child, people still believed in a strange monster that live all over the lakes of Chile and Argentina: el cuero (cow skin)

The cuero was a sort of stingray which picked swimmers and sunk to the bottom of the lake, to never leave it again.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2011 at 23:10
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

 

Bullcrap - although many anti-hunt people often bring superstitions up in feeble attempts to belittle their opponents. But I assume you have plenty of serious references supporting your claims?

No bullcrap, just the truth. The hysteria concerning wolves has indeed since long time passed the borders of superstition and paranoia. Or have you never seen or heard those hysterical people agitating against wolves in media, on conventions or in other contexts?


Edited by Carcharodon - 20 May 2011 at 23:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2011 at 23:14
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

 
Interesting. It may be that in some cases fosiles inspire natives. However, I know another source: earthquakes! That has been the inspiration of many monsters in Japan and in the Pacific coasts of the Americas.

In the book Adrianne Mayor mentions some hands on experiences where Native Americans seen, pointed out and also collected, fossils and told tales connected with them.

But ofcourse there can be also be several other underlying inspirations for stories and myths about monsters and beasts.


Edited by Carcharodon - 21 May 2011 at 00:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2011 at 23:15
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

When I was a child, people still believed in a strange monster that live all over the lakes of Chile and Argentina: el cuero (cow skin)

The cuero was a sort of stingray which picked swimmers and sunk to the bottom of the lake, to never leave it again.




Sounds interesting indeed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2011 at 08:56
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

 

Bullcrap - although many anti-hunt people often bring superstitions up in feeble attempts to belittle their opponents. But I assume you have plenty of serious references supporting your claims?

No bullcrap, just the truth. The hysteria concerning wolves has indeed since long time passed the borders of superstition and paranoia. Or have you never seen or heard those hysterical people agitating against wolves in media, on conventions or in other contexts?

Somehow I knew that was what you referring to. These people have their livestock attacked and dogs killed, and can't leave children outside. Your attitude that this must be due to silly superstitions is disgusting, but not uncommon among city-people who think they know everything, especially about rural life. Constantly calling your own interpretations "truth" is another height of hybris.


Edited by Styrbiorn - 21 May 2011 at 08:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2011 at 17:17
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

 

Bullcrap - although many anti-hunt people often bring superstitions up in feeble attempts to belittle their opponents. But I assume you have plenty of serious references supporting your claims?

No bullcrap, just the truth. The hysteria concerning wolves has indeed since long time passed the borders of superstition and paranoia. Or have you never seen or heard those hysterical people agitating against wolves in media, on conventions or in other contexts?

Somehow I knew that was what you referring to. These people have their livestock attacked and dogs killed, and can't leave children outside.
Your attitude that this must be due to silly superstitions is disgusting, but not uncommon among city-people who think they know everything, especially about rural life. Constantly calling your own interpretations "truth" is another height of hybris.
 
I have actually met several people with this superstitious atittude that have not even seen a wolf. But still they stir up a superstitious fear of wolves also in others. They do not hesitate to let their children out in the traffic, or do other things where the risk for accidents are quite significant, but at the same time they have an irrational fear that some wolf would come and snatch the children.
Quite laughable.
And by the way, who said I was a a city dweller?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2011 at 19:48
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:


I have actually met several people with this superstitious atittude that have not even seen a wolf. But still they stir up a superstitious fear of wolves also in others. They do not hesitate to let their children out in the traffic, or do other things where the risk for accidents are quite significant, but at the same time they have an irrational fear that some wolf would come and snatch the children.
Quite laughable.
And by the way, who said I was a a city dweller?
And where, pray tell, did you meet these? And exactly what did they think? That wolves can turn people into stones by gazing upon them? Or did you misunderstand the word superstitious? It is not superstitious to believe wolves can threaten children (I'm guessing you will come up with some silly excuse but I'll bring up the recent wolf attack anyhow: http://www.dn.se/sthlm/vargar-dodade-hund-i-rosl*gen edit: can we PLEASE  get rid of the silly filter: switch the * to an a). Possibly slightly unnecessary fear in many cases, but it's not superstitious. It is more dangerous to go by car than to fly - is fear of flight "superstitious" in your opinion also? Please invest in a dictionary.


Edited by Styrbiorn - 21 May 2011 at 19:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2011 at 20:19
Besides, superstitions are usually rooted in fact. The cuero stingrays, I mention above, that eat people in lakes and push them to the bottom, was based in the FACT that the lakes and lagoons of many places in Souther South America are muddy and with lots of plants. And if you get cought there you drawn and die. So, there the myth appeared.
It is not a myth, though that lions, wolves and tigers eat people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2011 at 22:46
Actually our ex-president Jimmy Carter had an encounter with one of the monster Wrabbits in GA., a number of years ago. Our brave ex-Navy officer fended off this monster with his oar!

It made all of the news media!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2011 at 09:50
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:


I have actually met several people with this superstitious atittude that have not even seen a wolf. But still they stir up a superstitious fear of wolves also in others. They do not hesitate to let their children out in the traffic, or do other things where the risk for accidents are quite significant, but at the same time they have an irrational fear that some wolf would come and snatch the children.
Quite laughable.
And by the way, who said I was a a city dweller?
And where, pray tell, did you meet these? And exactly what did they think? That wolves can turn people into stones by gazing upon them? Or did you misunderstand the word superstitious? It is not superstitious to believe wolves can threaten children (I'm guessing you will come up with some silly excuse but I'll bring up the recent wolf attack anyhow: http://www.dn.se/sthlm/vargar-dodade-hund-i-rosl*gen edit: can we PLEASE  get rid of the silly filter: switch the * to an a). Possibly slightly unnecessary fear in many cases, but it's not superstitious. It is more dangerous to go by car than to fly - is fear of flight "superstitious" in your opinion also? Please invest in a dictionary.
 
It is superstitious to think that wolves just run upon every child they see and gobble it up, or that they would attack all people going out in the forest collecting mushrooms or berries. It is superstitious to think that being eaten by wolves is a  real danger for children going to school, especially compared with more realistic threats as being hit by cars, bicycles, being attacked by humans, or not to talk about ordinary dogs. In Sweden noone has been killed by wolves since the days of the Gysinge wolf in the 1820:s. How many people have not been attacked and killed by dogs, bulls, elks, cows, wasps and crazy humans during that time? It is much more risk that a child that goes through a forest (a forest with some wolves) will be killed by a bee or a wasp, or will stumble and hit his head on a stone than it is to be killed by a wolf. It is even more risk that he will be struck by lightning.
So the fear of wolves is so exagerrated that it is indeed superstitious.
 
And if people let their dogs run all over the place among wolves it is the fault of the owners since wolves see a dog as an intruder on their territory (the dog is seen as another wolf). Many loose running dogs are killed in the traffic too, still people crave no bans on cars.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2011 at 10:26
Get a dictionary; you do not know what superstitious means.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2011 at 11:01
Here is one definition in Swedsdis that in many aspects corresponds to the exaggerated belief in the danger of meeting wolves: "Vidskepelse aer en tankevilla om verklighetens beskaffenhet som inte baserar sig på kunskap eller förnuft."
 
Here in English: "Superstition is a credulous belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge."
 


Edited by Carcharodon - 23 May 2011 at 11:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2011 at 11:24
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Here is one definition in Swedsdis that in many aspects corresponds to the exaggerated belief in the danger of meeting wolves: "Vidskepelse aer en tankevilla om verklighetens beskaffenhet som inte baserar sig på kunskap eller förnuft."
 
Here in English: "Superstition is a credulous belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge."
 

And how is it not based on reason and knowledge: there was a wolf attack last month.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2011 at 12:11
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

And how is it not based on reason and knowledge: there was a wolf attack last month.
 
On a dog. That does not mean that wolves are attacking children. The wolves was after the dog since dogs are seen as intruders on the wolves territory.
 
Later some people even wished to have permission to hunt for these wolves, another example of exaggerated fear and hate towards dogs.
 
By the way, one can note that the persecution of wolves in old times had some traits in common with the hunt for witches. 
On top of that the wolf was seen as something foreign, and a threat against the nation and peoples way of living. Some of those ideas still live on, some people claiming that the wolf is introduced and that it is a threat against the rural life style and culture.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2011 at 13:41
The wolf IS something foreign and it is also a threat. Are you crazy?
 
Not many people are killed by wolves nowadays because there are hardly any wolves around, and the ones that are are mostly where there are no people.     
 
The idea that a pack of wolves loose in Oxford Street of Fifth Avenue would be no danger to anyone is simply ludicrous.                                                                                                                           


Edited by gcle2003 - 23 May 2011 at 13:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2011 at 13:52
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

The wolf IS something foreign and it is also a threat. Are you crazy?
 
The wolf is hardly foreign, it has existed here in Scandinavia at least as long as humans. It is a natural part of our fauna.
 
One can note that the wolf many times has provoked similar reactions as those some people have shown towards alleged withches and also towards certain groups of foreigners.
  
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

The idea that a pack of wolves loose in Oxford Street of Fifth Avenue would be no danger to anyone is simply ludicrous.                                                                                                                          
 
Well, to let a pack of wolves loose in a city would be an extreme provocation that could turn any animal hysterical and going into defence mode.


Edited by Carcharodon - 23 May 2011 at 13:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2011 at 13:57
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

The wolf IS something foreign and it is also a threat. Are you crazy?
 
The wolf has been here in what we call Sweden at least as long as humans, so it is hardly anything foreign, it is just a part of the nature.
It may well have been there longer than people. That still makes it foreign. Maybe not foreign to Scandinavia but foreigh to Sweden and the Swedish people.
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foreign Look up foreign at Dictionary.com
mid-13c., ferren, foreyne "out of doors," from O.Fr. forain "strange, foreign; outer, external, outdoor; remote, out-of-the-way" (12c.), from M.L. foranus "on the outside, exterior," from L. foris "outside," lit. "out of doors," related to for1s "door," from PIE *dhwor-ans-, from base *dhwer- "door, doorway" (see door). Spelling altered 17c. perhaps by influence of reign, sovereign. Replaced native fremd. Sense of "not in one's own land" is first attested late 14c.
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And it is hardly a threat, since it is a shy animal which often avoid people.
Because it has learned that people are a danger to it. If people weren't a danger to it it would very soon stop being shy. Wolves aren't shy of prey, and if people weren't a threat to it people would be (and of course have throughout history been) prey.
 
If I carry an AK-47 not many people will be a threat to me. Doesn't mean I can throw away the gun and they still won't be a threat.
Quote  
It seems that the wolf many time has provoked similar reactions as those some people have shown towards alleged withches but also towards foreigners.
Or to any other threat. So? People have much the same reaction to polio virus  or rotting meat. I bet you don't go around being friendly toward mycobacterium tuberculosis.  


Edited by gcle2003 - 23 May 2011 at 13:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2011 at 14:01
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

  
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

The idea that a pack of wolves loose in Oxford Street of Fifth Avenue would be no danger to anyone is simply ludicrous.                                                                                                                          
 Well, to let a pack of wolves loose in a city would be an extreme provocation that could turn any animal hysterical and going into defence mode.
Sometimes I think you really must be kidding. You're too much of a caricature to exist for real.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2011 at 14:18
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

It may well have been there longer than people. That still makes it foreign. Maybe not foreign to Scandinavia but foreigh to Sweden and the Swedish people.
 
Well it depends on how you define foreign ofcourse, but the wolf is a well known part of Swedish nature. That certain groups have not liked it or feared it is another matter. Hysteria and superstition exists also among Swedes.
 
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Because it has learned that people are a danger to it. If people weren't a danger to it it would very soon stop being shy. Wolves are shy of prey, and if people weren't a threat to it people would be (and of course have throughout history been) prey.
 
Well, since we humans is one of the absolute most destructive of all creatures the wolf will ofcourse have a natural fear for us. Ofcourse as with all big, wild animals also the wolf shall be treated with respect, but to be afraid of going out in the forest or being afraid of letting out ones children out of fear of wolves is quite exaggerated.
 
One can also notice that the bear, which is documented more dangerous, do not provoke such hysterical reactions as the wolf. Recently a boy happened to skii right into a bears den and was bitten in the legs. Inspite of the experience he pleeded that noone should harm the bear or the cubs she had in the den.
 
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Or to any other threat. So? People have much the same reaction to polio virus  or rotting meat. I bet you don't go around being friendly toward mycobacterium tuberculosis.
 
Historically seen people have always had respect for wolves, but all people have not necessarly been especially afraid of it. But among certain groups a supertistious and exaggerated fear of wolves have grown, in some periods also spurred by authorities that saw the wolf as a nuiscance.
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