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What is your local monster?

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Styrbiorn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2011 at 15:35
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:


On a dog. That does not mean that wolves are attacking children. The wolves was after the dog since dogs are seen as intruders on the wolves territory.
 

And as I said in the other thread: no parent would ever let his kids play where these wolves run around killing dogs.  Further, the wolves also lunged at the kid's stroller. 

Now, I'm not saying that this is a reason to kill all wolves - I'm clarifying this to prevent the worst hyperboles - but it's obvious that parent do have all the logical and rational reasons in the world to be careful with kids. Heck, I wouldn't let kids play alone when there were Canadian geese around. Animals are unpredictable. The point is that you are extremely rude and arrogant calling careful people "superstitious", especially since you are a city-boy (correct me if I'm wrong) and they live in the nature you claim to know everything about.

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On top of that the wolf was seen as something foreign, and a threat against the nation and peoples way of living. Some of those ideas still live on, some people claiming that the wolf is introduced and that it is a threat against the rural life style and culture.
They are a threat - they hunt and kill livestock and people's dogs. The only reason the wolves are concentrated to the areas south of Jämtand is that the Sami exterminates the wolves who come close to their reindeers herds Northwards. Of some reason it's politically correct for Sami to protect their livestock, but not for ethnic Swedes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2011 at 11:40
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:


And as I said in the other thread: no parent would ever let his kids play where these wolves run around killing dogs.  Further, the wolves also lunged at the kid's stroller. 
 
And as I said,  the danger for people is exaggerated in a way that verges to superstition. Especially children are at a considerable risk going out in the traffic, or being attacked by dogs, or falling in water, or falling down from trees, or being stung by wasps and a lot of other things. To be gobbled up by wolves are among the least dangers they can came upon, both statistically or when it concerns the behaviour as a wolf.
But ofcourse it can seem frightening to actually be whitness to a showdown between a wolf and a dog. But much of the screaming about wolves comes from people who never had any close contacts with wolves at all and have seen them only in TV or in Zoos.
 
What is remarcable is the hysteria connected with wolves, especially compared with more dangerous animals as bears, and even elks. Not to mention the danger of all this dogs which injures many persons every year.
 
I have often heard a use of words concerning the wolf that is not often heard about other animals, words as "evil", devlilry" and other words that bear whitness of an irrational hate and fear.
 
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

They are a threat - they hunt and kill livestock and people's dogs. The only reason the wolves are concentrated to the areas south of Jämtand is that the Sami exterminates the wolves who come close to their reindeers herds Northwards. Of some reason it's politically correct for Sami to protect their livestock, but not for ethnic Swedes.
 
Wolves can be a nuiscance or an economic liability, but to see it as something devlish and a danger for peoples way of living in rural areas is exaggerated. There are worse threats.
 
And with a sound policy which includes economic compensation, also the economic impact of wolves could be very much reduced.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2011 at 12:20
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:


And as I said in the other thread: no parent would ever let his kids play where these wolves run around killing dogs.  Further, the wolves also lunged at the kid's stroller. 
 
And as I said,  the danger for people is exaggerated in a way that verges to superstition. Especially children are at a considerable risk going out in the traffic, or being attacked by dogs, or falling in water, or falling down from trees, or being stung by wasps and a lot of other things. To be gobbled up by wolves are among the least dangers they can came upon, both statistically or when it concerns the behaviour as a wolf.

And just how many parents let their kids run around on the street, be attacked by dogs, play with wasp nests or swim or climb without supervision? 
 
Quote  have often heard a use of words concerning the wolf that is not often heard about other animals, words as "evil", devlilry" and other words that bear whitness of an irrational hate and fear.
Really, where do you meet these people? The only animal I've heard regularly being called "evil" are house cats.

 
 
Quote
 
Wolves can be a nuiscance or an economic liability, but to see it as something devlish and a danger for peoples way of living in rural areas is exaggerated. There are worse threats.
Who think they are spawn of hell? Show me some supporters of the wolf hunt that think they are devil creatures. All I see is here is a concrete-person showing his prejudice about rural-dwellers and whiffing away all their arguments as based on "superstition" - without actually listening to what they have to say. And how about the Sami - do you support their right to dispatch any wolf they see?




Edited by Styrbiorn - 24 May 2011 at 12:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2011 at 12:35
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

And just how many parents let their kids run around on the street, be attacked by dogs, play with wasp nests or swim or climb without supervision? 
 
Well, more than a few it seems, since several children are injured by dogs, by wasps, or in the traffic every year. Also there are drownings or incidents in connection with water.
 
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

  Really, where do you meet these people? The only animal I've heard regularly being called "evil" are house cats.
 
Some of these people I met at a gathering, that they called information meeting about predators which was arranged by hunters. The information meeting degenerated soon into a display of wolf bashing. Also I have met other people in rural areas where I lived and worked who referred to the wolves as "odjur", "evil", "fanskap" and so on.  
 
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

Who think they are spawn of hell? Show me some supporters of the wolf hunt that think they are devil creatures. All I see is here is a concrete-person showing his prejudice about rural-dwellers and whiffing away all their arguments as based on "superstition" - without actually listening to what they have to say.
 
It is hard to show you people that I met personally, but I have heard people actually proposing similar thoughts.
And thinking about it, it is perhaps not very supriprising that some people see the wolf  in a superstitious way. There is an old tradition of hate and fear concerning this animal and people also show superstitious beliefs in other contexts (believing in gods, believing in ghosts and so on).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2011 at 14:26
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:


And as I said in the other thread: no parent would ever let his kids play where these wolves run around killing dogs.  Further, the wolves also lunged at the kid's stroller. 
 
And as I said,  the danger for people is exaggerated in a way that verges to superstition. Especially children are at a considerable risk going out in the traffic, or being attacked by dogs, or falling in water, or falling down from trees, or being stung by wasps and a lot of other things. To be gobbled up by wolves are among the least dangers they can came upon, both statistically or when it concerns the behaviour as a wolf.
Unless you quantify that by taking into account the number of wolves around, that is just a silly pointless piece of prevarication. There are thousands more cars around then wolves, many more dogs, bees, trees than there are wolves.
 
You'll be tellikng us next that lions aren't dangerous because no-one in Lapland has ever been killed by one.
 
You might at least rry to keep within the bounds of sanity.
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But ofcourse it can seem frightening to actually be whitness to a showdown between a wolf and a dog.
No! Really! When wolves are such tame, shy, peaceable creatures that wouldn't lift a paw against you?
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But much of the screaming about wolves comes from people who never had any close contacts with wolves at all and have seen them only in TV or in Zoos.
And very little of it comes from people who were killed by them. http://www.mtmultipleuse.org/endangered/wolf_pics.htm
 
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What is remarcable is the hysteria connected with wolves, especially compared with more dangerous animals as bears, and even elks. Not to mention the danger of all this dogs which injures many persons every year.
Elks aren't predators. Wolves are predators. They are designed to kill and eat other creatures, even more so than bears, which are omnivores. Still, yes, bears are also dangerous. Doesn't make wolves safe.
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I have often heard a use of words concerning the wolf that is not often heard about other animals, words as "evil", devlilry" and other words that bear whitness of an irrational hate and fear.
You mix with some very funny people. We already know that.
 
Quote
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

They are a threat - they hunt and kill livestock and people's dogs. The only reason the wolves are concentrated to the areas south of Jämtand is that the Sami exterminates the wolves who come close to their reindeers herds Northwards. Of some reason it's politically correct for Sami to protect their livestock, but not for ethnic Swedes.
 
Wolves can be a nuiscance or an economic liability, but to see it as something devlish and a danger for peoples way of living in rural areas is exaggerated. There are worse threats.
Of course there are worse threats. But you still have to take care against threats even if there are worse ones. People running hydroelectric generator plants have to take care against accdents even thogh the threat isn't as great as that from nuclear power plants.
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And with a sound policy which includes economic compensation, also the economic impact of wolves could be very much reduced.
You didn't answer Styrbiorn's point. But then you never do answer somone else's point.
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Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2011 at 14:49
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

  

Unless you quantify that by taking into account the number of wolves around, that is just a silly pointless piece of prevarication. There are thousands more cars around then wolves, many more dogs, bees, trees than there are wolves.

 

In older times when wolves were more common they still did not gobble up people that moved around in the woods. And people many times moved around more in the woods in those times. Also children who where sent out to look after cattle.

 

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

   No! Really! When wolves are such tame, shy, peaceable creatures that wouldn't lift a paw against you?

 

Some people are also frighetened when they see a fight between dogs. So some can ofcourse be frightened when they see something they are not used to.

 

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

   Elks aren't predators. Wolves are predators. They are designed to kill and eat other creatures, even more so than bears, which are omnivores. Still, yes, bears are also dangerous. Doesn't make wolves safe.

 

Still Elks can be very aggressive in certain situations, while wolves mostly run away when they meet people. An animal is not necessarily more dangerous to people because it is a predator.



Edited by Carcharodon - 24 May 2011 at 14:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2011 at 19:00
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:


Some of these people I met at a gathering, that they called information meeting about predators which was arranged by hunters. The information meeting degenerated soon into a display of wolf bashing. Also I have met other people in rural areas where I lived and worked who referred to the wolves as "odjur", "evil", "fanskap" and so on.  
Hunters have their dogs killed by wolves; I think they are entitled to call the killers names.
 
Quote  
It is hard to show you people that I met personally, but I have heard people actually proposing similar thoughts.
Similar thought or those thoughts?
Quote
And thinking about it, it is perhaps not very supriprising that some people see the wolf  in a superstitious way. There is an old tradition of hate and fear concerning this animal and people also show superstitious beliefs in other contexts (believing in gods, believing in ghosts and so on).
Ah - in other words its your prejudice about people talking.
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:


 

In older times when wolves were more common they still did not gobble up people that moved around in the woods. And people many times moved around more in the woods in those times. Also children who where sent out to look after cattle.


You don't have the sources to claim anything statistically.

Quote

Still Elks can be very aggressive in certain situations, while wolves mostly run away when they meet people. An animal is not necessarily more dangerous to people because it is a predator.


When was the last time a moose killed a dog or sheep? Moose are dangerous when you hit them with your car.


Edited by Styrbiorn - 24 May 2011 at 19:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2011 at 11:24
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

Hunters have their dogs killed by wolves; I think they are entitled to call the killers names.

 

Well, maybe better that hunters watched their dogs better. All these dogs running around in the woods is a nuisance. And also investigations suggest that loose running dogs (not only the hunters dogs though) are killing more livestock in Sweden than wild predators. Still one hear very few demands of eradicating or forbidding dogs.

 

Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

Similar thought or those thoughts?

 

Those thoughts, and similar.

 

 

Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

Ah - in other words its your prejudice about people talking.

 

Superstition still live among us to a certain degree.


Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

You don't have the sources to claim anything statistically.

 

Well, historians have worked with these matters and have no confirmed sources showing that wolves have killed people in Sweden after the Gysinge wolf. And hunt statistics from that time show that there were more wolves. Also children moved about in the forests and tended to cattle (vallpigor, vallpojkar). 

 

Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

When was the last time a moose killed a dog or sheep? Moose are dangerous when you hit them with your car.
 

I did not say that elks kill sheep. But there are often incidents with elks attacking dogs. And people are killed by elks.

 
 
And others are attacked even if they survive:

 

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=86&artikel=3270657



Edited by Carcharodon - 25 May 2011 at 11:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2011 at 12:04
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

 

Well, maybe better that hunters watched their dogs better. All these dogs running around in the woods is a nuisance.



What? The purpose of these dogs are to run around searching prey. And a nuisance to whom? To you? They have hunting permits, and usually the owner of the land is a part of the hunting team. 

Quote

 And also investigations suggest that loose running dogs (not only the hunters dogs though) are killing more livestock in Sweden than wild predators. Still one hear very few demands of eradicating or forbidding dogs.

Source please. 




Still, you didn't answer my questions about the Sami.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2011 at 14:11
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

What? The purpose of these dogs are to run around searching prey. And a nuisance to whom? To you? They have hunting permits, and usually the owner of the land is a part of the hunting team. 

 

Unfortunately many other dogs are running round too, maybe because of neglect. And loose running dogs can be a nuisance for people who want to go around in the forest (or who want to go around in other environments), without hunting. Also loose running dogs can be a nuiscance and a threat to a lot of animals.

 

By the way, talking about dangerous, there are people killed by accidents in connection with hunting nearly every year. Perhaps it would be a thought to forbid hunting for common people and instigate a system with professional hunters that cull animal populations when needed.

Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

Source please. 

 
 
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

The only reason the wolves are concentrated to the areas south of Jämtand is that the Sami exterminates the wolves who come close to their reindeers herds Northwards. Of some reason it's politically correct for Sami to protect their livestock, but not for ethnic Swedes.
 
With a better system for compensation perhaps also the Sami would stop exterminating wolves.




Edited by Carcharodon - 25 May 2011 at 14:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lao Tse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2013 at 01:51
Originally posted by Tuzi Tuzi wrote:

i live in the most beautiful China, our hometown hasn't monsters~Embarrassed
Hmmmmm, which province?
 
 
As for monsters for me it depends on local. Where I live is sttill divided in half between Xi'an and Kentucky, so it depends on what you mean by local.
 
In the village we had the usual intrigue of a small town, including superstitons, and if this counts, we had a few people born with two normal legs, and an extra, very limp, leg.
 
In Kentucky, atleast according to my great-granddaughter, Cedar Ridge has a few fish monsters, I myself saw a few superfish about 4 feet long, and one fish in the lake that would attack make-shift rafts for frogs, but I think that's usual, except the fish ate the raft WITH the frogs.
 
In Xi'an, theres the usual ghost or two. My house there is well over a hundred years old, and to be honest I believe it's got a ghost there. I here crying when no one's in the house and I'm singing in Mongol.
在財富的害處,而是一件好事永遠不持續。我在和平中仅居住在新的風下。 Wei Jia Hong No harm in wealth, but a good thing doesn't last forever. I live only among peace under
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