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What was the greatest milestone in women's rights?

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    Posted: 19 Aug 2014 at 08:41
Considering the article at http://www.crackedhistory.com/10-major-steps-forward-towards-womens-rights/ what do you think was the most important milestone in women's rights?  Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZoeRPM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2014 at 22:17
Don't forget the negative milestones as well as the positive ones. I'd say the most significant negative one in the English-speaking world was the Norman conquest, which took most of women's rights away. The other negative move has been the introduction of 'non-medical' maternity leave, which has left employers loath to take on women of breeding age. Most countries also have totally inadequate equal opportunities legislation covering such matters as access to jobs and training and equal pay. The law is based on tort so a person who has not been wronged cannot make a complaint. There is no obligation on any employer to ensure that men and women are treated alike and to make an effort to ensure that every job at every grade is done by roughly equal numbers of men and women working the same hours for the same pay and promotion prospects. Hereditary titles are still often passed to the eldest son and no amount of daughters count. This may only affect a small number of families but the implications for family businesses, where wealth is passed on to the sons and not the daughters, are very important.

On a positive note I would suggest:

1. Universal suffrage;
2. Socialised medicine e.g., the introduction of National Health Insurance in the UK, which I think was in 1923 (my grandfather ran the scheme in Scotland);
3. The invention of sterilisation by tubal ligation (reliable birth control at low cost);
4. Free contraception;
5. Any law that makes it illegal for a woman to use her husband's surname, such as in Quebec or Italy. This should be the rule everywhere. Women are not their husbands' property and it's nobody's business but one's own whether one is married or to whom.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2014 at 22:28
Zoe

1. Universal suffrage;

Recognition of women as equals was one of the most progressive moves made on behalf of women, but then it had to be granted by men, didn't it?

2. Socialised medicine e.g., the introduction of National Health Insurance in the UK, which I think was in 1923 (my grandfather ran the scheme in Scotland);

Socialised medicine didn't just benefit women but the entire community, with emphasis on the poor, but it was a major step forward.

3. The invention of sterilisation by tubal ligation (reliable birth control at low cost);

Surely a matter of convenience and permanence rather than a real necessity.

4. Free contraception;


5. Any law that makes it illegal for a woman to use her husband's surname, such as in Quebec or Italy. This should be the rule everywhere. Women are not their husbands' property and it's nobody's business but one's own whether one is married or to whom.

In Ethiopia, women retain their father and grandfathers names as their surnames, but when people who use this system migrate to English speaking countries where it is not common practice, it can lead to confusion in records, such as health records. But in these modern days when many young people are opting not to get married, the effect is the same, they retain their fathers family name.
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As the years go by, of course there are so many developments in women's rights. For me, it's the period where women were granted equal civil rights. When women were able to express their rights to vote, have the choice to use contraception, being protected by the marital rape law, and employment discrimination. Check out the blog of the 93-year old, Simone Klugman "A Woman Ahead of Her Time" and it's very inspiring how a powerful woman was able to change the lives of the majority of women for good. 
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In my mind a big thing happened when women were not considered witches anymore. The accusation always came with the capital sentence.
Women are still subjected to big discrimination in parts of the world. There are still inequalities in payments and job opportunities almost everywhere in this world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2019 at 02:55
The witch thing was big. Even better, access to the power of money & no need to have anything 'granted' by men. Men control women out of fear, fragile ego needs constant reinforcement so pathetic, glad that's over with.  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2019 at 03:54
We allowed them to vote, and look how that turned out.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2019 at 03:55
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

We allowed them to vote, and look how that turned out.Wink
teehee, you allow us to fall in love with you! Worst form of mind control!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2019 at 13:02
Birth control pill, which I would be willing to make a gentleman's bet it was designed by men.  Totally changes the sex game though, for better or worse, I am not so sure.

Edited by franciscosan - 31 Aug 2019 at 13:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2019 at 01:11
IMO, avoiding pregnancy without birth control pills was never impossible. The question was will the society or the man agree to avoid pregnancy? Making the decision by an individual female something to be void of emotion is dishonest at the very least. Social pressure to run to that abortion clinic is an assault on the spiritual and mental well being of men and women.

The state won't have regrets about an individual abortion but women and men do have regrets. Let's all pretend it does not matter, get used to calling an embryo a "clump of cells" and then reduce the whole experience to an extraction at the doctors office. 

Eventually if the campaign to devalue unborn life is successful, only the odd one who hasn't silenced the conscience will notice the reversal. The devaluation of living bodies will translate to those already walking around outside the womb. We see that devaluation in the mass shootings.
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Edited by Vanuatu - 14 Sep 2019 at 01:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2019 at 12:29
And then we allowed them to drive motor cars and to fly aeroplanes. Where will it ever end?Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 10:49
probably the most dramatic is the regulation, and control of fertility for women, but probably the most significant for every day life is feminine sanitation products.  One hears about African villages were girls cannot go to school because they don't have feminine sanitation.

Some say it will end in fire, some say in ice, I say in fire, but if it be ice, that will suffice.

It is not like we "allowed" them anything.  Saying that we "allowed" them to do something implies that we could stop have stopped them.  "Stopping them" was only a delaying action at best.  I think that there are cogent points for not, say, having women in combat forces.  No, not because they're weaker but because it messes with male soldier's head.  Sexual assault seems to be a too common occurrence in the military.  It is not a matter of blaming it on the victim, it is a matter of creating an experimental environs, and believing that the mice (M and F) that are already stressed out due to extraordinary (violent) circumstances, will not react in worse ways.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 13:52
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

And then we allowed them to drive motor cars and to fly aeroplanes. Where will it ever end?Wink
It's seems like another world where women or anyone should have had to ask for human rights. I really don't like the suggestion that women ever had an inferior role in civilization. Different from men but not without power or influence. Without big strong males mothers and babies had no chance, men had no purpose without women and babies. 

It has been suggested that the size of males decreased over time when men no longer compete for mating rights. When fathers had fewer children/stepchildren to protect they became more involved as caregivers. Lots of men take care of the house and kids these days, mom works and all is well. This is good, yes?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 14:21
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

It is not like we "allowed" them anything.  Saying that we "allowed" them to do something implies that we could stop have stopped them.  "Stopping them" was only a delaying action at best.  I think that there are cogent points for not, say, having women in combat forces.  No, not because they're weaker but because it messes with male soldier's head.  Sexual assault seems to be a too common occurrence in the military.  It is not a matter of blaming it on the victim, it is a matter of creating an experimental environs, and believing that the mice (M and F) that are already stressed out due to extraordinary (violent) circumstances, will not react in worse ways.
Some people are natural predators. They look for weak animals just like lions. In the military, people are often away from home for the first time so it's scary and you are vulnerable. Hunting grounds for perverts.
Again, those assaults are against men and women it's depravity that appears to be tolerated like hazing. Not just any woman can fight in a combat situation. In the Infantry, there are communications experts, medics many other supporting roles to be filled before the one holding a weapon can act. 

Some would say there are no non combat roles in the military.
A soldier in a combat situation can only follow protocol whether male or female. Right? 
Is the young male screwed up bc he's concerned about female soldier's well being or competence?
I'm just not clear on why the male soldier is screwed up.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 14:54
It's not just the males that are screwed up.

Since women in modern times have been placed in combat positions, they too are suffering mental healh issues.

Women have always had rights, some communities were even controlled by women, but men were perceived as being bigger, stronger and basically unchallengeable. All of that has changed. Women now hold top positions in some very major companies and in politics, and have shown that they can do the job well.

This topic has been a bit of fun in some instances, but I would assert that the greatest milestone in women's right has been women claiming their rights-at last.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 17:35
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

It's not just the males that are screwed up.

Since women in modern times have been placed in combat positions, they too are suffering mental healh issues.

Women have always had rights, some communities were even controlled by women, but men were perceived as being bigger, stronger and basically unchallengeable. All of that has changed. Women now hold top positions in some very major companies and in politics, and have shown that they can do the job well.

This topic has been a bit of fun in some instances, but I would assert that the greatest milestone in women's right has been women claiming their rights-at last.
And, men need decent treatment too. It's embarrassing to see women go out of their way to attack men as a group.

I know other women who are terrified for their sons since -Media/DNC- have vilified and slandered particular human groups. This makes men targets for a small percentage of angry social justice warriors who have no problem assaulting strangers or telling enormous lies about sexual assaults. 
No accountability for accusers who turn out to be liars. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 09:03
William F. Buckley Jr. believed that men have an instinct to protect women, and so having women serve in combat roles messes with the heads of the men who serve with women, because in order for the men to do their job, the men have to let women (and other combatants) do their job, and that messes with the instinct.
And then there is the problem of sexual harassment and rape in the military.  or even "fraternization."

ancient world didn't really believe in human rights.

I think there are some really interesting youtube videos on men's rights groups.  There was a woman who is a feminist (although now out of favor),  who did a film expose` on men's rights groups, and came to sympathize with them.  Called "the red pill".   Feminists tend to hate it without having seen it.  I forget her name, but she did a Ted talk, also an episode of Rebel Wisdom (British, nothin' to do with the South).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 23:55
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

William F. Buckley Jr. believed that men have an instinct to protect women, and so having women serve in combat roles messes with the heads of the men who serve with women, because in order for the men to do their job, the men have to let women (and other combatants) do their job, and that messes with the instinct.
As much as I liked Buckley, I suggest that he knew exactly Jack & Squat about being an infantryman. Buckley lived inside his own head and the information he may have gathered about the modern infantryman or from the modern military man can be considered when we all return to 1965.
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And then there is the problem of sexual harassment and rape in the military.  or even "fraternization."
Yes many people get together in the military. This changes nothing about a person's job in the military. Are you confusing this with high school?
Adults can decide to have sex, it's not rape and it's not problematic, or you have have not demonstrated how it is problematic.
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ancient world didn't really believe in human rights.
No, the ancient world established an order of quality humans based on bloodlines. A hand full families would oversee the unwashed masses. Ancients make a distinction by blood, I'm saying the distinction wasn't based on human rights. In this day and age human rights are the supposed measure of fairness.
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I think there are some really interesting youtube videos on men's rights groups.  There was a woman who is a feminist (although now out of favor),  who did a film expose` on men's rights groups, and came to sympathize with them.  Called "the red pill".   Feminists tend to hate it without having seen it.  I forget her name, but she did a Ted talk, also an episode of Rebel Wisdom (British, nothin' to do with the South).
Yes, it was a case of refusing to acknowledge what has always been known and understood on some level in all humans. I don't believe anyone ever thought slavery was Just, it was merely possible and the greed was strong enough to suppress the instinctive question "what if it were me?" 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2019 at 10:39
Some people consider human nature as malleable, and they can make it whatever they want it to be, with no bad consequences.  They will define the good by what they want (or think they want), if it doesn't go the way they want they will blame it on somebody else (most likely an hetero- white male).  If the results don't match what they expect, then change the expectations.  It was done for the War on Poverty (LBJ), if you look at the original War on Poverty, poverty won.

Buckley understood human nature fairly well.  It is not just whatever people want.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2019 at 06:35
Is dominant and masculine the same thing? Matt Lauer, the ladies man accused again publicly in book form -no actual charges. Lauer got caught in a cultural upgrade that seemed to take him by surpirse. Charlie Rose too, he had complaints going back to 1986 about indecent proposals to the ladies. Some 80's movies are so bad pc wise, they would never be made today. 

Redefining dominant is more palatable then feminism. Some girls dominate at Call of Duty game, even get paid to play! That's progress baby!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2019 at 11:35
No, dominant and masculine are not the same thing.   Although they may overlap.  I think of story of the girl who went into talk to her (dominant) mother about the boy she is dating, she mentions that he proposed to her and her mother says, "if you don't marry him, I will disown you."  The girl goes into her father's den and starts talking to her father.  Unlike mother he rarely gets involved but because he rarely gets involved when he does it has extra weight. After a little while he puts down the newspaper, and sits there listening to her while smoking his pipe.  Finally, recognizing that she doesn't love the boy friend, he says, "if you marry him, I will disown you, I will talk to your mother."

For couples, one is dominant and usually (superficially) gets their way, but it is precisely because the other usually goes along, and it is a little expected.  However, when they do contest an issue, the partner can exert quite a bit of persuasive force.  And determine the issue own major decisions.  I don't see that the dominant partner has to be the male or female (or that it has to be a different sexed couple).

We have hardcore porn available on the internet, why get a little excited about a little tittle and a shower scene from Porky's?  I am not sure it is an improvement.

Charlie Rose stepped in it, and tracked it across the carpet, ruining a wonderful television show.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2019 at 23:42
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:


We have hardcore porn available on the internet, why get a little excited about a little tittle and a shower scene from Porky's?  I am not sure it is an improvement.

Charlie Rose stepped in it, and tracked it across the carpet, ruining a wonderful television show.
I don't think the porn has helped either-for the record.

Amen on Charlie Rose, he did do great interviews. If you ever get the chance to see one of Rose's interviews with Cate Blanchett you will see Charlie drop his veil a bit. He compliments her to an embarrassing extent, really gushes and leers! Lol she is rather nervous with him.


 
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