| FORUM | ARCHIVE |                    | TOTAL QUIZ RESULT |


  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - When humankind history started?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Welcome stranger, click here to read about some of the great benefits of registering for a free account with us and joining us in our global online community.


When humankind history started?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
 Rating: Topic Rating: 1 Votes, Average 5.00  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Victor Torvich View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 02 Jul 2021
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 9
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Victor Torvich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: When humankind history started?
    Posted: 02 Jul 2021 at 03:06

Everybody will tell you that the history of humanity started around 5,150 years ago. Of course, not the same wording would be used. The phrase would be like this. The history of mankind is recorded history. In other words, our history began only when humanity invented writing.


Different sources pointed to slightly different dates of the first known writings. An ‘Archaeology’, a publication of the Archaeological Society of America, and comprehensive ‘The Oxford Companion to Archaeology’ dates the first writing at 3200 BC – 3100 BC. The average of those two dates would be 3150 BC plus minus 50 years. In other words, according to conventional wisdom, the history of humanity began in 3150 BC. Counting from nowadays, in 2020, that was approximately 5,130 years ago. 

No doubt, the invention of writing was a breakthrough event in the history of humanity. What about the time when humans managed to get control over fire? What about the date when people invented the wheel? There were a lot of important breakthrough events in the history of humanity. Yet, mankind settled on a notion that its history began with a first writing. 

The magic word is convenience. It is much easier to work with historical facts and artifacts if you have written records about it. It is hard to work with only archeological or similar data. The history with existed written records is a comfort zone for everybody. Any choice of the beginning of history of humankind as a date before a first writing will throw researchers and the public out of this comfort zone. Well, that should not stop us from asking. 

What is a good date to be the beginning of humankind history? 

You could read more about it in my book "Subsurface History of Humanity: Direction of History", which is available on amazon and audible.com.

victor torvich
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
caldrail View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Rushey Platt
Status: Offline
Points: 1566
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2021 at 11:00
History is only relevant if you have a record to observe. Otherwise you're straying into the field of archeology.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
Back to Top
Victor Torvich View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 02 Jul 2021
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 9
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor Torvich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2021 at 13:06
Archeological artifacts (related to Homo Sapiens) are part of Homo Sapiens history. Archeological artifacts (related to dinosaurs) are part of dinosaurs' history.
victor torvich
Back to Top
truthsetsfree View Drop Down
Earl
Earl


Joined: 30 May 2014
Location: bad New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2021 at 21:55

In conventional views History is since writing (Proto-literate Period of Mesopotamia), Prehistory is before written records, and natural history before modern-like humans. In ancient Greece before Plato, myth was unwritten traditions, legend was written traditions.

Some sources list a dozen or so necessary discoveries for being classified "civilisation", such as the wheel, writing, calendar, metals, agriculture, etc.

"Fossils cast doubt on African Eve. Asian find questions evolution path" Miami Herald / LA Times Service 5th June 1982.
"African finds revise cultural roots" B Bower, Science News?
"Nanderthals not such a rough bunch scientists say" Michael Smith, Chicago 9th Feb 1992.
Australian Aborigines called "the First Seafarers".

Jericho one of the earliest cities.
Neolithic agriculture lead to civilisation.
Berlitz and Spanuth give evidence of alphabetic script in Stone Age Europe including: Mesolithic Azilian pebbles with symbols like writing (and Zehren says similar symbols found at Beersheba). Glozel tablet from Magdalenian period with symbols like writing.
Sewing needles and custom-made clothes were found in stone age (Solutrean/Magdalenian).
Upper Palaeolithics (Cro-Magnons/Paleo-Atlantids etc) of ca "30000s" bc were homo sapiens sapiens and were equal or superior in body & brain to modern humans. Cro-Magons had fire. At Kish in Iraq, Sialk in Iran and Mohenjodaro in India/Pakistan were found Combe-Capellids. A culture found in the high artic in MacKenzie river area of North America were Cro-Magnids.
Calendar markings in Dordogne France 30000 yrs ago/old.
Cave paintings Lascaux France 16000 yrs bp.
"[S]ickle blades and corn-grinding stones appear in late paleolithic tool-kits."
Classical Neanderthals were homo sapiens and their post-cranial skeleton was essentially modern, and their brain was larger than modern humans though the frontal lobe was less developed. Neanderthals' Mousterian culture was considered by some a number of years ago to be "superior to" Upper Paleolithic ones. Neanderthals could talk, believed in afterlife (as evidenced by burial customs), had fire, etc.
Progressive Neanderthals (Swanscombe, Steinheim, etc) were more like modern humans than Classical Neanderthals, and they had fire.
Homo Erectus was a decade or so ago changed to now be regarded as being homo sapiens, their post-cranial skeleton is also indistinugishable from modern humans, and they had fire.
Some finds of other advanced modern human like fossil men like Calveras, Castenedolo, etc.
J Campbell’s ‘Masks of God’ book gives evidence that some human hit the australopithcene on the head with a instrument/tool.

There are evidences of traces of humans and civilisation in lots of periods of the geological time scale as seen for example in 'Forbidden Archaeology' by Cremo and Thompson.
humanoid tracks in Pennsylvanian era sandstone / sandy beach, Kentucky Hills (Dr Burroughs 1930s).
human footprint with trilobites in it Cambrian period, Antelope Springs near Utah (Will J Meister, 1968).
other human prints of same ancient type (OC Marsh, National Academy of Sciences NY, 1882).
human footprint of same ancient type (American journal of science Vol 3 # 26).
"Iron hammer in Cretaceous rock" ("London artefact")?
Moab Man from Cretaceous period?
Dorchester pot from Ediacaran period?
And "out of place artefacts" in early ancient history also contradict evolutionary theory.
Battery found in Iraq.
Crystal skull at Helwan in Egypt.
Crystaline object "perhaps ceremonial" found half a mile down near Azores, argon date 13 mya.
There are lots of evidences that Dinosaurs where contemporary with early humans and civilisation https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/could-this-allude-to-the-dinosaurs.39791/page-3#post-994052 .
(I also saw a recent news item on Dinosaur Man which also occured some decades ago.)

But conventional archaeological and geological dating methods are actually unreliable, so the dates are all disputable.

"The true and essential origin of man is to be found elsewhere, in superior races who, already in prehistoric ages, possessed a civilisation of limited material development but of notable extremely elevated spiritual content, so much so as to be symbolically designated remembrances of all peoples, as divine races, as races of god-like men." - Julius Evola.

Back to Top
caldrail View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Rushey Platt
Status: Offline
Points: 1566
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2021 at 20:48
Quote Archeological artifacts (related to dinosaurs) are part of dinosaurs' history.
I think you mean paleontology. Well, there is some cross over, since our early ancestors left no writing or communication except perhaps ritual stone monuments and cave paintings.

Quote Moab Man from Cretaceous period?
Excuse me? Higher mammals didn't exist until after the Cretaceous never mind any form of human. We are not 65+ million years old as a species.


Edited by caldrail - 03 Jul 2021 at 20:53
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
Back to Top
truthsetsfree View Drop Down
Earl
Earl


Joined: 30 May 2014
Location: bad New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2021 at 23:44
Originally posted by caldrail caldrail wrote:

Quote Moab Man from Cretaceous period?
Excuse me? Higher mammals didn't exist until after the Cretaceous never mind any form of human. We are not 65+ million years old as a species.


There are evidences that humans and dinosaurs were contemporary contrary to conventional geological time scale theory, as the link I posted in my previous post shows (lots of evidences). Whether that means dinosaurs were not really that long before but were later (dinosaurs later), or humans were much earlier is upto people to decide for themselves (humans earlier).
Also there are reasons for thinking that the Palaeozoic and Mesozoic may match preflood in Genesis, as in tentative table below.

Cambrian explosion = creation in Genesis 1 (& 2?)
Jurassic no seasons = summer & winter 1st mentioned after Flood
Cretaceous 4 rivers in Israel area = Eden?
Cretaceous worldwide break = Flood
Cenozoic "new era" = post-Flood
Oligocene seasons first known = summer & winter 1st mentioned after Flood
Ice Age(s) = post-Flood unstable climate/weather, Job
Homo erectus meat eaters, Cro-Magnon hunters = meat eating & hunting post-Flood
Neanderthal = Togarmah?
Cro-Magnon, Combe-Capelid = hunter Nimrod/Shinar, Magog?
Azilian Mesolithic = Beersheba/Abraham, Madai?
neolithic = Javan?
Lake Dwellings/Danubian/Western neolithic (Egyptian wheat, dred lakes, 7 yrs cycle) = Joseph, Elishah?
Megalithic/Heliolithic = Og (bedstead)/Moses, Tarshish (stone)?
Stonehenge/Wessex = Gilgal/Joshua, Meshech?
Hallstatt = Gezer

As for other mammals, the evolutionary theory may not be as certain as believed.
"Many of the fossil leaves found in rocks of Cretaceous age are indistinguishable from those of some present-day flowering plants."
Present day type insects and modern corals in Triassic.
There are drawings from Minoan palaces and Old Kingdom Egyptian pictures at Sakkarah that possibly show "prehistoric" animals?
There was also some other source saying something about unknown kinds of animals in ancient picture or site somewhere which I saw a day ago but I can't remember or find which book or site or where in the book or site it was.
Possibly mammals were not as flourising before the flood.
Velikovsky's Earth in Upheaval gives some evidences about geological time scale periods not being so right as assumed.
Kofahl's Handy Dandy Evolution Refuter also gives evidences about evolution not being so certain as made to seem.



Edited by truthsetsfree - 04 Jul 2021 at 00:23
Back to Top
Victor Torvich View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 02 Jul 2021
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 9
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor Torvich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2021 at 13:19

I tried to find out who was a first to tie the beginning of the history of humankind to the invention of writing. I was not able to find it out who started this tradition to consider only the recorded history of humanity as a history at all. It is hard to see the roots of that tradition. Did we get an explanation of why we should believe that? No. We all know the saying that the old traditions die hard. Should we just accept that everything which happens with humans before the invention of writing is prehistory? Is it a “no questions asked” situation?

Of course, it could be explained. That reason is simple and very convincing. The magic word is convenience. It is much easier to work with historical facts and artifacts if you have written records about it. It is hard to work with only archeological or similar data. The history with existed written records is a comfort zone for everybody. Any choice of the beginning of history of humankind as a date before a first writing will throw researchers and the public out of this comfort zone. Well, that should not stop us from asking.

victor torvich
Back to Top
caldrail View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Rushey Platt
Status: Offline
Points: 1566
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2021 at 18:43
Quote There are evidences that humans and dinosaurs were contemporary
No, there isn't. It really is that simple. Unless you include birds which is perfectly acceptable. 

This brings up an important point because some people love a concept so much that they make tenuous connections or simply make stuff up. A classic example is the German Atom bomb project of WW2.  We know it never got anywhere. We know that Hitler forbade any further work after finding out it wouldn't be available until 1947. Yet you will find claims that such a weapon was tested in 1945. Or that the Amerika Bomber aircraft were designed to carry an atomic weapon. I've even heard documentaries where the host claimed the Nazis were twenty years ahead of Allied science. Nonsense. If anything, Nazi dogma prevented them from keeping up, though their aircraft designers did get quite imaginative. But people like the idea.

Interpretation is another problem. Von Daniken and others of his ilk are the worst offenders because they interpret anything ancient in a modern context. So a ritual headress becomes a space helmet. A symbolic tree becomes a rocket bike. I saw a documentary a few weeks ago which claimed alien visitors bred humans as slave labour to mine gold. The whole concept is laughable when you think rationally.

So, as a test of my contention, draw a monster. Anything you like. Then show it to other people asking them what they think it is. Nobody will inquire when or why the monster was drawn. They will simply attempt to interpret the image according to their own expectations and education. 
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
Back to Top
truthsetsfree View Drop Down
Earl
Earl


Joined: 30 May 2014
Location: bad New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2021 at 18:43
Originally posted by caldrail caldrail wrote:

Quote There are evidences that humans and dinosaurs were contemporary
No, there isn't. It really is that simple. Unless you include birds which is perfectly acceptable. 


Ok we'll just have to disagree.

Nothing like the Nazis or Daniken. I try to be careful and sensible. There is even a find of humans underneath Dinosaurs in South America.

Originally posted by caldrail caldrail wrote:


Nobody will inquire when or why the monster was drawn. They will simply attempt to interpret the image according to their own expectations and education.


Textual criticism type scholarship has flaws. Even conventional involve interpretation theories. Too often the conventional just dismiss things as "natural geological formation" etc. The behemoth in bible had a tail like a cedar tree yet they claim it is a hippopotamus! (I saw a very funny picture comparing the tails, it was very hilarious.)

Sorry to the OP if it seems went off topic but everything I posted I thought related to topic heading and OP.
Back to Top
caldrail View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Rushey Platt
Status: Offline
Points: 1566
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2021 at 18:59
Quote There is even a find of humans underneath Dinosaurs in South America.
Now that's a challenge. Okay, post a link, we'll have a look. 
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
Back to Top
truthsetsfree View Drop Down
Earl
Earl


Joined: 30 May 2014
Location: bad New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2021 at 19:04
Originally posted by Victor Torvich Victor Torvich wrote:

I tried to find out who was a first to tie the beginning of the history of humankind to the invention of writing. I was not able to find it out who started this tradition to consider only the recorded history of humanity as a history at all. It is hard to see the roots of that tradition.

Not sure who started it, it is an interesting question.
Alot of our north-western world history ideas seem to have come from Classical and Roman and papal scholars.
The reason why is because when there is no written records we have no records or anything for a nation/culture except any oral memories.
Herodotus "father of history". Plato (Egyptians had records from beginning, Greeks no records before catastrophes). Plato (myth oral, legend written). John 1 (in the beginning was the written word). UK no written history before Romans.

Mind you they don't even believe all written sources either, they claim alot are "unreliable" and they only accept "scientific" methods like carbon dating etc. Though they accept contemporary written sources just not non-contemporary ones. Yet they place too immense reliability in sources like the Assyrian king list.

Back to Top
truthsetsfree View Drop Down
Earl
Earl


Joined: 30 May 2014
Location: bad New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2021 at 19:09
Originally posted by caldrail caldrail wrote:

Quote There is even a find of humans underneath Dinosaurs in South America.
Now that's a challenge. Okay, post a link, we'll have a look. 


human skeletons buried underneath bones of toxodon & megatherium & dinosaur in excavations in Lagoa Santa and other locations in Minas Gerais in Brazil.
You'd have to search as it is from a book. I haven't searched it online.

other evidences in my post at https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/could-this-allude-to-the-dinosaurs.39791/page-3#post-994052

Back to Top
caldrail View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Rushey Platt
Status: Offline
Points: 1566
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2021 at 11:55
Toxodon and Megatherium weren't dinosaurs. Sorry.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
Back to Top
truthsetsfree View Drop Down
Earl
Earl


Joined: 30 May 2014
Location: bad New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2021 at 18:34
Originally posted by caldrail caldrail wrote:

Toxodon and Megatherium weren't dinosaurs. Sorry.


I said "and dinosaurs".
Back to Top
caldrail View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Rushey Platt
Status: Offline
Points: 1566
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2021 at 20:41
You've already dated the find within an era long after the dinosaurs had gone. You won't find the species you mention 'and' dinosaurs. It is interesting that the two species lasted as long as they apparently did but that does not contradict the accepted evolution of Mankind.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.086 seconds.