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    Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 23:23
Russia has been accused of electronically influencing the result of the Presidential Election.

As yet I have seen no "specific" allegations, but I note that President Obama has authorised sanctions against Russia.

What confuses me, is that it appears that there is no plan in operation to hold new elections, or to postpone the Presidential Inauguration in three weeks time. This seems to be ludicrous, that a President can be elected and hold office when they have been elected by proven fraud.

I know that a new election would cost a lot of money, but how else will the USA expect the rest of the world to treat a Trump administration with anything but scorn and derision?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2016 at 00:19
The crime is in trying to influence the elections unduly.  There really isn't any evidence that Trump had a hand in it, and there really isn't any evidence that it was decisive.  The fact that the election was interfered with, does not invalidate the results.  People "freely" voted, they "freely" vote after getting their information online from biased sources, but there was not voter fraud in the sense that voting machines were tampered with, or particular people were prevented from voting.

I find it interesting, because there have been times where America has interfered with elections somewhere.  It is interesting, because some people decry those as fraudulent elections.  There is a difference between totally fraudulent elections, and some chinanigins going on.

Trump will have the irregularities of the election hanging over him in office, to those who worship him as not-Hillary, it won't matter or at least it won't matter for awhile.  For others it will make them watch him carefully, expecting further failure, or rather success through illegitimate means. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2016 at 01:11
All we have are allegations. We have been presented with absolutely no evidence: no details of specific acts committed, who committed them, and how they carried out these acts technologically. I see no good reason to simply 'listen and believe' to the claims being made here - and at this point I don't believe it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2016 at 03:54
This is just a cover up of the incompetence of Clinton and Obama.  Obama in 2012 said the Russians were ready in a post cold war world to work with the U.S., he is an idiot ideologue who has never had a real job and no experience of any use to anyone not an ideologue.

Setting up the next president to fail is the act of a child not a responsible person who loves the free world.  You have to read Obama to understand his serious mental problems, his dream has always been to do what his father could not and that is end a colonialisms that only Marxists really believe in.  His father was a drunk, a womanizer, and guilty of involuntary man slaughter.  Is that someone with dreams you want to fulfil.

Clinton was a monster who destroyed the lives of woman who most likely were sexually exploited by her husband.  She is transparently a liar and she did insolently violate national security protocols, she played a rule in making ISIL what it is and then laughed about it.  It is hard to believe that Trump could be a worse human being.

The never Clinton attitude is simply a matter of not voting for the evil you know.  Trump may be a horrible president but there is no proof while with Clinton their is an abundance of evidence.  If you our given two choices and one is obviously going to cause a great deal of harm and the other is frightening but unknown you would have to be an idiot to not try the second.    


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2017 at 03:10
Well, I guess that answers that-for the time being anyway, or does it?

I'm waiting for some statements of fact by the US government as to what is actually alleged-as opposed to ball park statements.

Anyone who is not American would think that for POTUS to take such drastic action, there would need to be some proof, or is just an opportunity to boot spies out, who should have been booted long before this?






Edited by toyomotor - 02 Jan 2017 at 00:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2017 at 00:53
I am very disappointed that President Obama didn't call me up and explain everything in small words that I could understand, regarding the "supposed" hacking of the DNC.  I am also very disappointed that the sound bites that the media gives, does not adequately explain what happened, let alone why it happened and how.  Of course, if they can't fit it into my short attention span.......... wha?  Oh, sorry I was distracted.  I don't understand much about the internet, but if they can't explain it to me, well it must not be worth knowing.  And if isn't worth knowing, well nothing must have happened.  But I still am disappointed with President Obama for not calling me up, and letting me know what didn't happen.

I think that if you really want to know what (probably) happened, you need to look further than the media elite.  The media elite doesn't really understand what happened, and they are working on the principle that "if you vague it up enough, it is going to be true."  In other words, if I say that someone in my living room just got shot, that is pretty easy (from anyone observing here) to refute, but if I say someone in Denver just got shot, well that is vague enough that it is probably true, especially when I say, "just."  Does "just" mean now (5:55) or in the last 15 minutes?  So something happened, and that something is "hacked," but what that means to a computer security expert and what it means to me are two different things.  "Hacked" is about at the limit of my computer savviness (and interest), and frankly, in media, lowest common denominator usually rules.  
I bet that Foreign Policy Review has an article (or will have) explaining in educated laymen's terms to foreign policy wonks what happened, how and why.  This effects foreign policy, and they have to have an understanding of its implications.

 


Edited by franciscosan - 02 Jan 2017 at 00:56
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Well excuse me for asking for proof, or at the very least some sort of evidence. 
I suppose you still think Saddam Hussein was buying yellowcake uranium from Africa and has just hidden his WMDs really, really, really well. Afterall, if the government and the media agrees that it is true then it must be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2017 at 01:57
The problem with Iraq was that Hussein was telling the UN one thing, and telling the Iranians another, and so the US believed what Hussein was saying to the Iranians.  I believe that the W Bush administration believed that there was WMDs, there were a few things that they thought from satellite surveillance were WMD sites.  With boots on the ground, they found out differently.  And seems like they admitted their mistake.  Powell embarrassed himself, pushed into claiming beyond the evidence.

It is an interesting question, you might say with the hack, a crime was (allegedly) committed.  I wonder what legal proceedings commenced.  Just because it is international law with state actors doesn't mean that there was not some action or procedure followed.  On the other hand, one would not expect in a criminal case for evidence to be released that would prejudice a jury.  The details of the crime/alleged crime are left to a jury.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2017 at 03:39
You really can't deal with the reality we live in can you.  The software used to hack the DNC servers is a outdated versions of software available here.  https://medium.com/@trentlapinski/evidence-of-russian-hacking-is-inconclusive-d485726b962f#.p44o89etf  The evidence points once again to an incompetent president and incompetent security at the DNC.

Obama's followed his fathers dream to become a Marxist who would decolonize the world, unfortunately it was the dream of a drunk, a womanizer, and a person who walked away from involuntary manslaughter.

The American people had a dream that a black president would unite the country.  It became a nightmare of burning cities and dead cops. 

Hillary had a dream that she would be president but it was a nightmare for everyone close to her and all the people's who's lives she destroyed along the way.

The world had a dream of peace but for Obama and Clinton it was more important to cover up their incompetence and antagonize the Russians. 

 


Edited by wolfhnd - 02 Jan 2017 at 03:40
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It's always easy to make up excuses after you screw up (or more likely, screw everyone else then claim it was inadvertent). The establishment had special interests at heart geopolitically when it decided to invade Iraq. They lied to get the support they needed for the invasion, and the media faithfully disseminated their lies to launch a war which killed over a million. They didn't make an honest mistake - they knew what they were doing.

But even if they are making an honest mistake - isn't that all the more reason for the public to remain skeptical and demand a high standard of proof? Just because the media and government has got sloppy (or more likely mendacious) in how they've treated this incident, that's no excuse for us to just go along with their narrative.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2017 at 21:14
They found the answer that they wanted to find, or rather they anticipated it, and fell on their face.  They also believed that there would be popular support.  I don't believe that Colin Powell would have gone out on a limb if he could foresee that it would get cut off.  Same with Bush, same with his administration in general.  That does not mean that everything is "OK."  They still screwed the pooch, FUBAR.  If someone drunk in a car runs down other people, that doesn't necessarily make them less culpable.  We could consider them even more culpable in a way, they got drunk, they got in the car.  Likewise, the Bush administration was a little drunk on power, they thought they could do anything.  If someone thought they could fly, and jumped out the window, I am not sure I would call that an "honest" mistake.  An honest mistake has some basis in a rational (but not necessarily accurate) assessment of reality.  In order to make an honest mistake, one must first be honest with one's self, which I don't think they were.  They messed up, and showed how damaged the administration really was.  But they did other things right (and other things wrong too), I think the Obama administration was that way, a mixed bag with a few real big messes, based more on arrogance and ignorance, than intentional malice.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2017 at 00:09
Constantine XI wrote,"..... Afterall, if the government and the media agrees that it is true then it must be."

Now I know that you have a sense of humour.  Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2017 at 00:11
Originally posted by wolfhnd wolfhnd wrote:

You really can't deal with the reality we live in can you.  The software used to hack the DNC servers is a outdated versions of software available here.  https://medium.com/@trentlapinski/evidence-of-russian-hacking-is-inconclusive-d485726b962f#.p44o89etf  The evidence points once again to an incompetent president and incompetent security at the DNC.

Obama's followed his fathers dream to become a Marxist who would decolonize the world, unfortunately it was the dream of a drunk, a womanizer, and a person who walked away from involuntary manslaughter.

The American people had a dream that a black president would unite the country.  It became a nightmare of burning cities and dead cops. 

Hillary had a dream that she would be president but it was a nightmare for everyone close to her and all the people's who's lives she destroyed along the way.

The world had a dream of peace but for Obama and Clinton it was more important to cover up their incompetence and antagonize the Russians. 

 

Does anything happen in American politics that you can't blame Obama for?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2017 at 00:47
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by wolfhnd wolfhnd wrote:

You really can't deal with the reality we live in can you.  The software used to hack the DNC servers is a outdated versions of software available here.  https://medium.com/@trentlapinski/evidence-of-russian-hacking-is-inconclusive-d485726b962f#.p44o89etf  The evidence points once again to an incompetent president and incompetent security at the DNC.

Obama's followed his fathers dream to become a Marxist who would decolonize the world, unfortunately it was the dream of a drunk, a womanizer, and a person who walked away from involuntary manslaughter.

The American people had a dream that a black president would unite the country.  It became a nightmare of burning cities and dead cops. 

Hillary had a dream that she would be president but it was a nightmare for everyone close to her and all the people's who's lives she destroyed along the way.

The world had a dream of peace but for Obama and Clinton it was more important to cover up their incompetence and antagonize the Russians. 

 

Does anything happen in American politics that you can't blame Obama for?

I think it is hard for people to understand the politics of another country so I will explain.  Obama is the poster child for the racism of low expectations.  All those people running around screaming Trump is a racist are victims of exploitation by the post modernist cultural Marxist that don't really care about minorities they are just using the simple minded to bring down western civilization.  The drug that is being pushed is call virtue signaling.  The cultish childlike mentality of most of the political correct crowd is proof that you can take the childern out of the traditional religions but you can't deny them religiosity.

One interesting study I saw recently showed a dramatic correlation between low verbal intelligence and people parasitized by group think and belief in multiculturalism.  Something to ponder if you want to understand why there are so many contradictions in the message we are hearing from social warriors.  One excellent example is the acceptance that a woman could be born in a man's body but a man cannot be born in a man's body because gender is a social construct.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2017 at 22:13
"virtue signalling" that is an interesting phrase, have to remember it.
Obama was elected, partially because unlike Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and other black leaders, he didn't dwell on trying to make whites feel guilty.  Whites rewarded him for that, which in itself is a little racist.  
Trump was guilty of systematically discriminating against blacks in housing, dismissing black applicants.  He denied it, and never acknowledged doing it, but was forced to pay a fine for doing so.  Was he doing so for his bottom line? (economic reasons).  Probably.  Blacks seem to be more prone towards conspicuous consumption, living beyond their means to show status.  But was Trump discriminating? yes.  
It is pretty funny how the media avoids talking about sex altogether, I mean male/female, choosing to talk about gender instead (which you are correct, is considered a social construct).  Instead of talking about the sex of a new born, they talk about the gender of a new born, which if it is a 'social construct,' does not really make sense at that age.  In an effort to avoid talking of sex (which is biologically determined), they use the term "gender" in absurd ways.  Does a two month old have a concept of gender?  Does a two month old have any kind of a concept?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2017 at 00:00
It seems to me, an outsider, that the American voter was faced with the choice between a self centred meglomaniac and an habitual liar-to the point of criminality.

Just pleased I didn't have to make that choice, but then again, the American voters don't have to vote.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2017 at 06:51
The more logical explanation is the Trump doesn't have the experience nor the support of collaborative networks to suppress his warts.  People simply will not accept that the king never has any clothe when you look deep enough.  The average person has none of the temptations that the rich and famous have but still they demand a kind of perfection that nobody can achieve.  I know not a single person that has never been guilty of some degree of sexism, racism, or irrational fear of competing ideologies.  If you think you are better than Trump maybe you are but I question how much of that is just self delusion even without the considering the element of shifting mores.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2017 at 23:08
If you mean that President-elect Donald J Trump was judged by different standards than your usual politician during the election and afterwards, I would agree with you.  Usually politicians cannot get elected to higher office, unless they have spent some time in lower offices.  The exception to that is generals, which is hardly an exception.  We are entering into a huge experiment, except it is not an experiment, because there is no criteria for what it would mean for Trump to fail.  Experiments have a criteria for success, and a criteria for failure, but Trump cannot admit the possibility of failure, and I believe neither can his adoring fans.  

The problem with Trump and racism, or sexism or fraud, is not that he has occasionally "slipped up."  It is that being a billionaire means never having to say you're sorry.  There is no feedback process to correct his behavior, everything can be bought, everything has its price.  He seems to be incapable of admitting a mistake, and being unable to admit a mistake, often means being unable to correct a mistake, once it has been made.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 00:36
Originally posted by wolfhnd wolfhnd wrote:

The more logical explanation is the Trump doesn't have the experience nor the support of collaborative networks to suppress his warts.  People simply will not accept that the king never has any clothe when you look deep enough.  The average person has none of the temptations that the rich and famous have but still they demand a kind of perfection that nobody can achieve.  I know not a single person that has never been guilty of some degree of sexism, racism, or irrational fear of competing ideologies.  If you think you are better than Trump maybe you are but I question how much of that is just self delusion even without the considering the element of shifting mores.

Nope! I don't think that I'm better than Trump-but yet again, if his public views on women, race etc are indicative of the man himself, I'm way better than him.

I would hope that if I had his wealth, I'd act with a lot more humanity and humbleness that he has.
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HILLARY CLINTON "I never received nor sent any material that was marked classified"

"I actually started criticizing the war in Iraq before (Obama) did."

Perhaps it is better to have a stubborn old man than a Machiavellian old woman.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 00:45
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

If you mean that President-elect Donald J Trump was judged by different standards than your usual politician during the election and afterwards, I would agree with you.  Usually politicians cannot get elected to higher office, unless they have spent some time in lower offices.  The exception to that is generals, which is hardly an exception.  We are entering into a huge experiment, except it is not an experiment, because there is no criteria for what it would mean for Trump to fail.  Experiments have a criteria for success, and a criteria for failure, but Trump cannot admit the possibility of failure, and I believe neither can his adoring fans.  

The problem with Trump and racism, or sexism or fraud, is not that he has occasionally "slipped up."  It is that being a billionaire means never having to say you're sorry.  There is no feedback process to correct his behavior, everything can be bought, everything has its price.  He seems to be incapable of admitting a mistake, and being unable to admit a mistake, often means being unable to correct a mistake, once it has been made.

And therein lies the answer to the man, too big, too rich and powerful to admit mistakes and say sorry.

Well may Hilary Clinton be a liar and/or criminal but at least, publicly, she acts with a certain amount of decorum.

The so called "debates" revealed a Trump that the whole world should fear. The man's reckless and uncaring. He shows no diplomatic skills at all.

The only thing to hope for is that Congress can sit on him for the next four years-and that the Generals do the same thing. Already there are reports that he's alienated the intelligence agencies, a very very dangerous thing to do.

It could well turn out that he will be a lame duck President-in name only, and not have a political friend to guide him.

Oy vey!!!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 03:19
It's turned back into the Dump on Trump thread.

At this point I am content to let those on the other side kvetch impotently about how "unfair" the election was. Because I know deep down that they don't really care about fairness; they're just miffed that the horse they were backing didn't win.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 17:04
Originally posted by Constantine XI Constantine XI wrote:

It's turned back into the Dump on Trump thread.

At this point I am content to let those on the other side kvetch impotently about how "unfair" the election was. Because I know deep down that they don't really care about fairness; they're just miffed that the horse they were backing didn't win.

You may be right,but the US Intelligence agences are teling Trump tht the Russians influenced he outcome of te Presidential vote.

I understand that they're in the midst of supplying factual technical information to back up their assessment. Meanwhile, Mr T. is supporting Vlad Putin by saying that he doubts if Russia did in fact interfere with the election.

If the horse didn't win because of Russian interference, the Presidential Inaugeraton should be postponed.

Regardless of he finally gets the seat or nor, there must be an investigation into te Electoral College with  view of disbanding it.

Imagine outcry in Australia if the outcome of an election was anounced, and then a group of politicians got together and over-ruled the people, to give the job to the loser.

Incidentally, while typing tis post, at 4am Sunday morning, the following appeared in my post_

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<td valign="top"><strong>Topic - Where to now?</strong><br />Posted: Yesterday at 12:19 By Constantine XI
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It's turned back into the Dump on Trump thread.<div><br></div><div>At this point I am content to let those on the other side kvetch impotently about how "unfair" the election was. Because I know deep down that they don't really care about fairness; they're just miffed that the horse they were backing didn't win.</div>
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The Russians again do you think?   LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 18:24
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Regardless of he finally gets the seat or nor, there must be an investigation into te Electoral College with  view of disbanding it.

Well I can't say I agree with that. The Electoral College has a similar purpose to the Australian Senate, ensuring a greater representation for smaller states and regional areas so that these are not subject to the tyranny of the majority. If you're going to argue that the Electoral College be disbanded, you'll have to provide a similar justification for the abolition of our own Senate.

Quote Imagine outcry in Australia if the outcome of an election was anounced, and then a group of politicians got together and over-ruled the people, to give the job to the loser.

Yes, doing so would completely de-legitimise the political establishment, government, and their claim to power. That has potentially far reaching consequences, including the rejection of the state's right to make and enforce laws. It breaks the social contract and potentially justifies not paying tax, obeying the law, or even secession.
That's the sort of situation Hillary's partisans are agitating for. While offering no evidence to justify their agitation. Very dangerous.

Quote Incidentally, while typing tis post, at 4am Sunday morning, the following appeared in my post_
We seems to have a technical issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 23:16
Donald Trump won the election, according to the rules of the election.  The electoral college is part of the American checks and balances, although in some ways its been defanged.  (States pass rules saying the electoral college must follow the popular vote for the state, if an electoral college representative won't vote that way, they will replace them with someone who will.)  Some democratic electoral candidates from Colorado (where Hillary won), wanted to choose a moderate Republican in hope of getting other states'  Republican electoral colleges to go along with it.  They were told that they had to vote for the democratic candidate who won the state, Hillary Clinton.
  
Constantine is correct that the electoral college is there to protect small states, against the tyranny of the majority.  Of course, New York were both candidates were from is number one in the cultural tyranny business, and number one on the federal dole.  I doubt Trump will do anything to threaten that position, nor would have Hillary Clinton.

btw, I blame this on the democrats.  If the democratic political machine hadn't made Hillary the a priori anointed leader, then Hillary would have gone through more scrutiny and maybe someone else would have arisen.  I do not consider Sanders to ever have been a serious candidate, Hillary was the democratic anointed, nobody else wanted to face the anger of the Clintons.  Sanders was a socialist in democratic clothing, and therefore, really was outside the democratic machine and they couldn't do much to him, banish him to the fringes? He already was at the fringes.
  
On the other hand, I did not and do not consider Trump a serious candidate, but look where he has got.  I am hoping that Trump will be successful in a fairly moderate manner.  I hope that he will try to be unifying and moderate, and that he will be successful at that.  I am not very confident about that happening, but I hope he proves me wrong.  I also think that "playing nice with others" is the best way for him to have a successful presidency and a positive historical legacy.  If he learns to "play nice with others" the "irregularities" of the election won't matter.  If he doesn't learn to "play nice with others," everything he tries to do will be compromised before he even starts.  But, I don't see this as any difference from any other high level politician.  It is just that he and his ego have him arguing with, say, the intelligence community before he even has gotten in.


Edited by franciscosan - 07 Jan 2017 at 23:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 23:54
franciscoan:-

1. If the Electoral College vote is supposed to reflect the popular vote of the state-it should do just that. I based my comments on the fact that there are claims that it didn't;

2. There is still the matter of the alleged Russian interference-are you in the USA getting any more detail on that? We're not;

3. Not knowing the possible  collective thoughts of The Senate, Congress and Heads of Agencies, is there a potential for disobedience to Trumps directions? Or does he die under suspicious circumstances, thereby eliminating the problem?

4. As for saying something nice about Trump, I like his suits.  Tongue


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2017 at 00:55
I believe the electoral college has the same number as the number of congressmen for the state, including senators.  So a state with one representative because of low population, has three electoral college representatives, per party, and a state with 30 representatives because of a high population has 32 electoral college representatives.  There is an upper limit for how many representatives a state has, in that there are only so many representative seats.  If smaller states grow, it costs bigger states in representative sets, and thus electoral seats.  Within the state, it is an all or nothing system, not proportional.  So if you have 50% +1, you get the whole thing.

The purpose of the electoral college was so that there was a politically savvy buffer zone that could reject the popular whims if need be, and select someone else.  States passing laws saying that the electoral college representatives _have_to_ choose the popular vote bypasses that safeguard.  One Colorado democratic electoral representative (Hillary won CO popular vote) refused to vote for Hillary, in hope getting a concession candidate that maybe some republicans in other state electoral boards would be willing to select.  He was forced to step down and someone else took his place.  I think he should be commended because he stuck to his convictions, and tried to do something about Trump's election.  That is what the electoral college is for, it would be nice if the rest of the political hacks in the electoral college would realize that.

I don't think that anyone "alleges" that Russia interfered, except maybe Trump's ego.  It was on the level of media manipulation, _not_ anything like voter fraud or affecting voter machines, or at least so I understand.  There is a version of the report for public consumption that has been released, in it the CIA, FBI and NSA all agree that Russia interfered.  I would look for that report, if you want more details, no I don't know what it is called.

We have a three part division of government, legislative, executive, judicial,  Each is supreme in its sphere, but there are checks and balances.  There are actions that the president can do by himself, and there are actions that he needs to work on with Congress.  Like I said, he needs to learn how to play nice with others.  The president appoints the heads of agencies, and they serve at his discretion.  Although realistically the agencies are bureaucracies that have a life of their own, which he would best not try to kill off (by "draining the swamp" perhaps?)  Senators, Congressmen, Judges don't legally have to obey the president, and if the president is smart, he will not alienate them through harassment.

Dying under suspicious circumstances would not solve the problem, but would be a whole new set of problems.  I hope that Trump is successful in promoting moderate democracy, and I hope that he lives beyond his first term, and if he is _truly_ successful in his first term, beyond his second term.  Do I think that is what he 'deserves,' no, I don't think that is what he deserves, but who of us really want to get what we deserve;)

Of course, Donald J. Trump is the oldest elected candidate to the Presidency, with maybe the exception of Reagan in his second term.  or so I understand.

Oh, btw I seem to remember that Trump dodged his security detail after the election. or maybe it was after the nomination.  It will be interesting to see how he responds to the White House fishbowl.  I don't know if he has (yet) claimed to know more about security than the Secret Service.


Edited by franciscosan - 09 Jan 2017 at 00:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017 at 05:22

http://www.smh.com.au/world/donald-trump-shown-claims-of-russian-efforts-to-compromise-him-cnn-20170110-gtp8qy.html

 "Russia cultivated Donald Trump for years before the 2016 election and holds compromising material on the President-elect's involvement in "perverted sexual acts", according to a series of explosive but unconfirmed memos made public today.

The memos, produced by a British intelligence operative, contain extensive details of efforts by Russia's intelligence community, directed by Russian President Vladimir Putin, to sway the outcome of the US election.

Among the compromising material - or "kompromat" - that Russian authorities had obtained on Mr Trump was a claim that he hired the presidential suite of the Ritz-Carlton hotel in Moscow where President Barack Obama and his wife, Michelle, had stayed during an official trip to Russia. 

He hired prostitutes to perform a sex act commonly known as a "golden shower" on the bed where the Obamas had previously slept, the material read."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The above extract is taken from an article published in the Sydney Morning Herald. It is posted at face value, and the author says quite freely that the original contains errors. To get a better take on the allegations, the article needs to be read in ful at the address provided (see below).

Having allegations of this type made even before the inauguration throws even more doubt on Trumps suitability to hold office. The implications of having a president capable of blackmail over the incident, if the allegations hold any water, are immeasurable. They also paint a picture of a sexual pervert unsuitable to hold office.

To read the report in full, go to buzzfeed.com.

I've never heard of buzzfeed, so I have no idea whether or nor  they are a reliable source. Perhaps one of our American members can give me an unbiased opinion.





Edited by toyomotor - 11 Jan 2017 at 05:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017 at 07:10
I've heard of buzzfeed. It's a hub of "progressive" propaganda inserted into a news and social media site which I have found is notorious for its inaccuracy, its establishment partisanship, and its general anti-white propaganda.

Let's keep it real here. Before the election how many women came forward claiming Trump had sexually assaulted them? 17 was my last count, but it could easily have been higher. And how many of those claims were substantiated in any way? 0

I appreciate you sourcing this claim and providing us with details. That's the correct way for us to assess this situation. But I think what we have here are just more allegations by perpetually anonymous sources, with no hard evidence. These claims are not like the DNC leaks nor the Podesta email leaks - there is no hard evidence for us to scrutinise and thereby verify whether the allegations are true.

So at this stage I have to judge the above claims to be no more than rumour without any convincing basis in fact.


Edited by Constantine XI - 11 Jan 2017 at 07:15
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wolfhnd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017 at 10:23
You think maybe enough is enough. I have cancelled my subscriptions to normal media outlets and even avoid the click bait.
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