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toyomotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 06:50
Come on now you Trump supporters, admit it, Trump is either delusional, if you take a charitable stance, or he's a downright liar.

I've just seen and heard him on TV, claiming that there have been numerous acts of terrorism around the world that "....the dishonest press refuse to report". He includes on that list the Lindt cafe seiige in Sydney, NSW.

Every Australian knows that that incident was reported ad nauseum.

Quote Kellyanne Conway made up a fake terrorist attack to justify Trump's - Vox
www.vox.com/world/2017/2/2/14494478/bowling-green-massacre
4 days ago - The Bowling Green Massacre, explained. ... Kellyanne Conway made up a fake terrorist attack to justify Trump's “Muslim ban”
 IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!


Having just seen and heard him speak on TV, I take the latter view. He's putting up an  unpenetratable wall between himself and the media, which, although he doesn't realise it, is taking the mickey out of him, big time, by reporting exactly what he says.

Oh, it slipped my mind-the dishonest media probably doctored both the audio and the vision so that alternative facts were reported.

This one cowboy who is riding for a fall.




I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 07:23
Quote Come on now you Trump supporters, admit it, Trump is either delusional, if you take a charitable stance, or he's a downright liar.

Do you realise how much men of my generation hate you? You disgust me. You sold us out. You surrendered our future to our enemies. Gullible fools like that should be lined up against a wall and shot. You're an embarassment to your race and your country.

Quote I've just seen and heard him on TV, claiming that there have been numerous acts of terrorism around the world that "....the dishonest press refuse to report". He includes on that list the Lindt cafe seiige in Sydney, NSW.

He's right. Your generation let these subhumans into our society. And now we're going to have to fight them for territory. You failure.

Quote Every Australian knows that that incident was reported ad nauseum.

You old, useless, worthless husk of a dead man.

Every Australian thinks you're a turd. You f**ked us over. 

Quote This one cowboy who is riding for a fall.

You're a narcissistic, nihilistic old fool. We'll clean up your mess, but we spit on your memory, you stupid old fool.


Edited by Constantine XI - 07 Feb 2017 at 07:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 07:40
CXI - Your post is hidden - it is outrageous and breaks several points of our COC.

You can save yourself from a ban by putting up another answer to toyomotor - if you don't, you are gone from this forum for good.

~North
 
   
   If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.    (Albert Einstein)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 23:41
I think it was es_bih who questioned my media sources in relation to some of the things that the new President has said.

What I consider to be a good article appears on the Syney Morning Herald web site at 
http://www.smh.com.au/world/the-madness-of-donald-trumps-attack-on-the-media-20170207-gu7rze.html.


Surely even the most ardents supporters are questioning his mental stability when his tweets turn out to be outright lies. His televised media announcements follow the same path. I don't understand how or why, but his senior Media Advisor also appears to live in LaLa Land.

Continued attacks on the media and Supreme Court judges amount to insane rants, in the main.

This is the man who holds the fate of the world in his hands. He is charting a dangerous course in attacking China, while engaged in a "love in" with Vladimire Putin.

The British Parliament has said that when/if Trump visits England, he will not be invited to address the Houses of Parliament. A singular insult when that priviledge has been granted to other US Presidents.

Under Trumps administration, the US faces the prospect of becoming isolated in the western community, and he could well find that all of his tanks and guns stationed around the world will not be enough to buy him acceptance, much less friendship.

If/when the international community stops buying American products and looks for other sources of supply, you can bet that there are others waiting in line to take up the slack.


I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 23:46
Originally posted by Northman Northman wrote:

CXI - Your post is hidden - it is outrageous and breaks several points of our COC.

You can save yourself from a ban by putting up another answer to toyomotor - if you don't, you are gone from this forum for good.

~North
 

Having not seen the post, I still consider it a shame that a member has strayed so far from the CoC as to be permanently banned, especially after nearly ten years membership.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 02:27
The truth is that outrageous amount of ad hominems and outright distortions connected to Trump is fueling a counter revolution of sorts.  Trump is not Hitler but we are going to get one if the left doesn't stop this insanity.  

We are so worried about the absurd fantasies related to Trump that reality seems to slip right past the majority of people.  Screaming Misogynist, racist and islamophobe does not an argument make and is largely divorced from reality.  That the Nazi collaborator, convicted inside trader, currency destroyer and general chaos instigator George Soros is behind the funding of violent left wing protests seems appropriate for a regressive movement that has lost any connection to reality it may have once had.  

Trump plans to roll back Dodd Frank. This is the most important action he has taken so far but no one seems to have noticed they are so concerned over the Soros scripted immigration plan that his puppet Angela Merkel has forced on millions of innocent useful idiots.  The plan has nothing to do with helping the victims of the U.S. created Syrian war.  It is about assuring a new wave of uneducated and poorly informed bread and circus victims to assure that the failing European states will never vote for sanity.  It is also about creating replacement slaves because the hedonistic and undisciplined population of Europe refuses to reproduce.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/antoineg.../#7ba13d95b641

The fact that people on the left seem totally indifferent to the rolling back of this Obama nightmare points to how infantile the political debate has become.
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 03:49
There are a lot of people who are afraid of Donald Trump and what he is going to do.  Instead of working to allay those fears, there has been a lot of mocking and efforts to intimidate.  Unlike a normal candidate who before he gets in office tries to reach out to opposing groups, Donald Trump worked on reinforcing his standing amongst his minority of hard core supporters.
Trump makes a lot of noise about what he is going to do, and to whom.  Is it a matter of "full of sound and fury" signifying nothing, or does he really mean it?  It sound like he really means it, so if people are scared, do you tell them to tough it, or do you work to play their fears?  So far the answer is that, "we won, and we are going to do, whatever we want" with little consideration of others, including republican office holders, and Federal employees, who will weigh in whether the Trump administration, whether the Trump administration wants them or not.  So if the Trumpites are going to try to work through fear and intimidation, they deserve whatever blowback they get.
There seems to be an attitude that the liberals have created a nightmare, and deserve whatever they get.  First of all, it is not a matter of what someone deserves, it is what is best for the nation, and for the world.  If Donald Trump got what he deserved....  Well, he is not a saint.  Second, I think that liberals have not created a hell, they have created a "heck."  And the road to "heck" is founded on good intentions.  Liberals have been assuming their own self-righteousness, and assuming conservatives bad faith, and been harping on it for so long that part of what is going on is blowback against them.  I think that they are wrong in many things, a low level, sapping wrong, not hell, but definitely a heck.

The ancient Greeks believed in inscribing the laws on stone, so that everyone could read them and know them.  Certain states required that proposers of new laws, stand on a bucket, with their head in a noose so that the bucket could be kicked out from under them if the laws were rejected.  Nobody could read all our laws in lifetime, and for that matter we keep on trying to make them perfect, instead of making them known to all citizens, in a reasonable manner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 04:32
Thanks franciscoan. I don't know about the States, but in Australia the two dominant political parties are the Liberals-suggested to be right wing, and Labour which is left wing.

However, for the average Joe, it's very hard to distinguish between the two. And there are the so-called "factions"-left wing, centre left right wing and far right. It's easy to determine the two extremes, the left wing being almost Communism and the far right almost reaches National Socialism. But the parties, in the main and apart from the odd nut case, are so alike in their policies and ways of doing business that it is difficult to choose between them.

I've often said that if the Westminster system of adversarial debate  was replaced with a co-operative system-both parties having input on an issue and reaching a resolution by negotiation and consensus we could have a much fairer and efficient system of government.

The problem seems to me to be getting people to talk to each other and engaging in rational debate, rather than the school yard bickering and mud slinging that we have today.


I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 05:57
Heads up about Constantine and his ban.

CXI wrote this insulting post as an answer to toyomotor:

I hid his offending post.The next post is my answer to him. 

He did not write another answer, but he wrote this post - and his two posts are the worst I ever have seen here.


I banned him and deleted his account as you can see from my next post.

He appears as Guest because his account is deleted.

es_bih:
look at his two posts, and tell me if there is anything remotely excusable about them?
there was no reason for a debate about his ban.
I have known him for a long time but he has changed and not for the better.

~ North

 


Edited by Northman - 08 Feb 2017 at 06:08
   
   If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.    (Albert Einstein)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 13:16
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Come on now you Trump supporters, admit it, Trump is either delusional, if you take a charitable stance, or he's a downright liar.

I've just seen and heard him on TV, claiming that there have been numerous acts of terrorism around the world that "....the dishonest press refuse to report". He includes on that list the Lindt cafe seiige in Sydney, NSW.

Every Australian knows that that incident was reported ad nauseum.

<h3 ="r" style="font-size: 18px; font-weight: normal; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; overflow: ; text-overflow: ellipsis; white-space: nowrap; color: rgb34, 34, 34; font-family: arial, sans-serif;">[quote]Kellyanne Conway made up a fake terrorist attack to justify Trump's - Vox</h3><div ="s" style="max-width: 42em; color: rgb84, 84, 84; line-height: 18px; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;"><div ="f kv _SWb" style="color: rgb128, 128, 128; height: 18px; line-height: 16px; white-space: nowrap;"><cite ="_Rm" style="color: rgb0, 102, 33; font-style: normal; font-size: 14px;">www.vox.com/world/2017/2/2/14494478/bowling-green-massacre</cite><div ="-menu ab_ctl" style="display: inline; : relative; margin: 1px 3px 0px; user-: none; vertical-align: middle;"><span ="mn-dwn-arw" style="border-color: rgb0, 102, 33 transparent; border-style: solid; border-width: 5px 4px 0px !imant; width: 0px; height: 0px; margin-left: 3px; top: 8.53333px; margin-top: -4px; : ; left: 0px;"></span><div ="-menu-panel ab_dropdown" role="menu" ="-1" js="keydown:m.hdke;mouseover:m.hdhne;mouseout:m.hdhue" -ved="0ahUKEwixpe2lsv3RAhVHF5QKHfMzB_4QqR8IHjAB" style="-: initial; -: initial; -size: initial; -repeat: initial; -attachment: initial; -origin: initial; -clip: initial; border: 1px solid rgba0, 0, 0, 0.2; font-size: 13px; padding: 0px; : ; right: auto; top: 12px; : 3; transition: opacity 0.218s; -shadow: rgba0, 0, 0, 0.2 0px 2px 4px; left: 0px; visibility: ;"><ol style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px;"><li ="-menu-item ab_dropdownitem" role="menuitem" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none; user-: none; cursor: pointer;">
<span ="f" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;">4 days ago - </span><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;">The Bowling Green</span><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;"> </span><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; font-weight: bold;">Massacre</span><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;">, explained. ... Kellyanne Conway made up a </span><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; font-weight: bold;">fake</span><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;"> </span><span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;">terrorist attack to justify Trump's “Muslim ban”</span><span style="color: rgb84, 84, 84; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;">
 </span>IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!

Glad you finally care about false news reports. She formally tweeted Bowling Green Terrorists and mistakenly said "massacre" . She misspoke, admits that and clearly explains herself. Does it matter that "certain types" of people, adult people have take to violent assault and destruction? I guess not until you read about a Republican aggressor.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 16:30
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

The republicans will have (some) party loyalty to President Trump, whereas President Trump does not have any loyalty to the Republican party, but rather to the popular movement that he has created (or that created him).  Congress is the legislative branch of government, whereas the Presidency is executive, there should be a little rivalry between them.  By relying so heavily on EOs (executive orders), and not consulting congress nor powers in the executive branch, he is causing a lot of chaos for a lot of people.  But that may be the plan, to create problems and blame them on anyone else.  I wouldn't worry about Trump being betrayed at the first possible opportunity.  He is very talented at throwing others underneath the bus.  He has popular support in some circles, it is not based the party system.

Constantine had it. The frogs jumping out of that pot will be Lindsey Graham and John McCain and their ilk.

The popular movement that was a response to the dimming of of America and the shake down of middle America. No wage increases and prices are in the stratosphere! 

Fake jobless numbers that don't reflect the millions no longer working bc they have figured out another way to live, without employment. We call them entitlements tax payers shell for them.

Obama used EO's to execute drone killings, without approval of  Congress. And you know Hillary and Obama had their elbows into the birth of the Syrian crisis. In June of 2015 only one news outlet was talking about the refugee crisis that was BBC. Chaos? UNICEF knew they were there, so did Red Cross and other humanitarian institutions. Remember many of the people who arrived in England that summer left Syria six years before. That's Chaos! Baby!


What "circles" are you impugning now? The I have a family work my a** off_ tired of seeing people being run over by huge trucks_being told from the horses side mouth that American voters are "too stupid" to know what's good for them circle? Is it that circle?
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 21:30


No - we never had to debate a member who had insultet another member plus the rest of mankind like CXI did. They were gone whenever they were spotted.
CXI is a blatant racist and he can air his opinions all he wants, but as I have stated many times before - we do not moderate content but behavior - and that is what makes the difference in this case. It has nothing to do with freedom of speech - only bad behavior.
If you fail to see how he insultet toyomotor, us all, making degoratory remarks on etnic groups - calling names - subraces and what not, I cant help you.
That would be obvious to most people.

~ North


Edited by es_bih - 09 Feb 2017 at 00:12
   
   If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.    (Albert Einstein)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2017 at 22:25
President Trump, like most people, is a mixed bag, I'm fine with his supreme court nominee.  I am not sure that flying an LGBT flag is a good thang, but okay.  The LGBT "community" wants to be integrated with the rest of society, and they want their separate identity.  I am not sure it really works that way, but there are Log Cabin Republicans, just as there are Green Republicans.  The political parties tend to be big tents.
As far as the economy is concerned, Trump can do a deal here and deal there, but it is still to be seen if he can affect the economy as a whole.  Striking individual deals, and leaning on individual companies may help in the short term those workers at individual companies, but overall it just adds chaos and uncertainty to the market as a whole.  It is a type of favoritism, and it conceals rather than solves problems in the economic system.

No, I don't like Donald Trump, but then again I don't know him, and would not want to.  But that means it is important to admit what positives there are that I see, although understand I try to ignore him.  The same was true of President Obama.  I didn't particularly like him either, but for different reasons.

From what I see, I don't like Donald Trump the man, as far as Barack Obama is concerned, I am indifferent to the man, I didn't like him as president.  I don't know if that distinction makes sense to others.  Peggy Noonan in the Wall Street Journal (kind of) says that Trump will either be good, or bad, there will be no middle ground.  He seems to be very skilled at fighting and angering other people.  But he does seem to be having a love fest with Vladimir Putin.

I am sorry that Constantine flamed out.  I wish him well. 


Edited by franciscosan - 08 Feb 2017 at 22:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2017 at 18:29
Hillary tried to have a love-fest with Vladimir Putin but he was put off. Her relations with Russia were completely ineffective ,even took us backwards. Why get help from the Russians to put ISIS/ISIL/Al Qaeda/Al Shabib down? We had Obama's famous "don't do stupid stuff " option where you tell the world that you have no plan, it's brilliant really.

I never saw anything stellar in Obama's "accomplishments" or his personality. I don't admire a president who is constantly on TV shows, stays silent while violence rules urban dwellers, did nothing about school choice. In fact he took away vouchers for kids in DC. He didn't do anything for black people unless you think Obama phone was his idea. Obama didn't do any deals that will endure. Iran signed an agreement with US only so they could break the agreement. Shameless sneaking around in airports, Lorretta Lynch and $400 million to make weather balloons. 

from Peggy noonan's blog:
It’s a mistake for observers in Washington and New York to fixate on Mr. Trump’s daily faux pas at the expense of the political meaning of what he’s doing. He’s changing the face of the GOP. It is a mistake, too, to see Mr. Trump’s tweet on how Chicago had better solve its problem with violent crime or he’ll “send in the Feds,” as merely stupid—just a tweet that raises the question “What does ‘send in the Feds’ mean?” If you’re a parent in a tough Chicago neighborhood, you’d be heartened to think the feds might help. You’d be happy the president noticed. You’d say, “Go, Trump!”
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2017 at 23:51
Interesting, I sometimes read what Noonan writes in the Wall Street Journal.  President Trump's pick of Maddox for Secretary of Defense was praised by democrats and republicans alike.  Trump acknowledges rural poverty (most poverty in the US is rural and white (cities and minorities get overemphasized)).

I am not a fan of President Obama, I think that he probably had some positive impact on the economy after the recession.  But I don't claim to understand the economy, and the economy has seemed anemic since.  If the Iranian deal sticks, then it will be a good thing.  Whether it sticks is dependent on both Iran and the US (and maybe others?).  I say this, because it is important to recognize that there are (probably) positive things about his presidency, besides the 'feel good.'  I assume that President Obama handled the day to day things fairly well.  I don't really know, since most of those are under the radar, unless you are involved with them.  But, I didn't vote for him.  Martin Luther King said to judge a man by the "content of his character, not the color of his skin."  Barack Obama does have a lot of character and force of personality, but part of that is arrogance.  Barack Obama was elected because a lot of people read into him what they wanted to see.
I am not confident about the people's judgment of Donald Trump, because I was not confident about the people's judgment about Barack Obama.  I am not really sure that it is different this time, or maybe we have been fooled, again.  Of course, both or neither could be true as well.  Of course, maybe I should be reassured that the vote for Trump is not exactly the "people's judgment" for Trump won the electoral college, not the popular vote.  A populist that did not win the popular vote, now there is an idea....
Please note, I am not complaining about the electoral college, I would prefer for the political process to have enduring rules, rather than us tinkering with them all the time to try to get something supposedly perfect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2017 at 04:26
What exactly about the Iran deal needs to stick? What do you like about it? They are allowed to do missile testing. They have no sanctions. How do you define success under the Iranian Nuclear deal?
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2017 at 23:38
I don't define success under the Iranian Nuclear deal.  That is not my job.  I am not convinced that it is a "good" deal, but I am willing to give the Obama administration the benefit of the doubt of bargaining in good faith.  And because I give the benefit of the doubt, I 'hope' that they knew what they were doing.  In the long term, we will see whether hope there is warranted.  Or of course, President Trump could change everything.  I am not sure saying one thing one time, and changing it the next moment is a good thing.  That is how the United States runs things, every eight years we change everything.  And Trump seems to say he wants to change the whole way we have done international relations since WWII.  

It concerns me that President Obama dropped sanctions.  i think he was hungry for a deal.  But whether or not it will turn out okay, I am not sure.  Maybe it is just changing problems.  But if President Trump gets into it, it will also just change problems, solve some things, exacerbate others.  We are in a new position from where we were eight years ago.  Is it better or worse than then, I am not sure, but I don't think President Trump knows either.  Of course, he will insist he does.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2017 at 01:42
Of course, exPresident Obama may have come to the realisation that it would be better to butt out of the middle east squabbles, which, incidentally, are largely the result of western powers interference in the first place.

This is one complaint frequently aired by Muslim countries, and who's to say they're wrong.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2017 at 03:12
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Of course, exPresident Obama may have come to the realisation that it would be better to butt out of the middle east squabbles, which, incidentally, are largely the result of western powers interference in the first place.

This is one complaint frequently aired by Muslim countries, and who's to say they're wrong.

Like he stayed out of Libya and Syria? Nor did show restraint when attacking Israel staring in 2009. Then couldn't resist one more kick as he went out the door. Even democrats were put off.

The betrayal came in two blows. The first came last week with Obama’s audacious refusal to veto the United Nations Security Council resolution 2234 slandering Israeli “settlements” as the foremost obstacle to peace. The second blow was Kerry’s controversial and tiring 70 minute speech delivered Wednesday, during which Kerry attempted to justify Obama’s ill-advised Security Council abstention and castigated Israeli settlements effectively equating them with Palestinian Terrorism.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2017 at 03:25
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I don't define success under the Iranian Nuclear deal.  That is not my job.  I am not convinced that it is a "good" deal, but I am willing to give the Obama administration the benefit of the doubt of bargaining in good faith.  And because I give the benefit of the doubt, I 'hope' that they knew what they were doing.  In the long term, we will see whether hope there is warranted.  Or of course, President Trump could change everything.  I am not sure saying one thing one time, and changing it the next moment is a good thing.  That is how the United States runs things, every eight years we change everything.  And Trump seems to say he wants to change the whole way we have done international relations since WWII.  

It concerns me that President Obama dropped sanctions.  i think he was hungry for a deal.  But whether or not it will turn out okay, I am not sure.  Maybe it is just changing problems.  But if President Trump gets into it, it will also just change problems, solve some things, exacerbate others.  We are in a new position from where we were eight years ago.  Is it better or worse than then, I am not sure, but I don't think President Trump knows either.  Of course, he will insist he does.

Foreign policy has continually changed in response to world events especially since WW2. Trump said Iran is on notice, did you detect a change in Iran's rhetoric since then?


 President Barack Obama never submitted his Iranian nuclear deal for ratification by the Congress because he knew it would have no chance of passing. That does not make the United States unique: The Iranian parliament has never approved it either (that body passed a heavily amended version) and the Iranian president has never signed it. The Iranian cabinet has never even discussed it. And the other members of the P5+1 – Britain, China, Germany, France and Russia – have likewise given it short legal shrift. Indeed, President Obama "may end up being the only person in the world to sign his much-wanted deal, in effect making a treaty with himself," as the Gatestone Institute's Amir Taheri has said.

In other words, Iran is not legally bound to do anything, something which a State Department official admitted last November in a letter to Kansas GOP Rep. Mike Pompeo of the House Intelligence Committee, in which she stated the deal "is not a treaty or an executive agreement, and is not a signed document." Instead, the official wrote, its success "will depend not on whether it is legally binding or signed, but rather on the extensive verification measures" and our "capacity to reimpose and ramp up our sanctions if Iran does not meet its commitments." And how is that going?

http://usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2016-01-21/obamas-iran-nuclear-deal-is-a-bad-deal-off-to-a-worse-start



The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2017 at 04:26
I don't know, I am not an Iranian expert or a international relations wonk.  It doesn't really matter to me whether President Obama did everything wrong.  I didn't have any expectations of him in the first place.  Why do you feel like you have to tear him down?  Did you vote for him?  If you didn't vote for him, why do you act so betrayed.  Because Donald says you should?  Just because President Trump wants to tear down everything President Obama ever did is not a good reason for you to advocate the same.

This is a pissing contest, I am willing, for sake of argument, to believe that President Obama did "something" right, just as I am willing, for sake of argument, to believe that President Trump will do something right.  I don't necessarily know what those things will be/were but I think that they will do/ have done something right.
I don't want to be a part of their pissing contest, I am not pissed off, and I don't want to be pissed on.

I suggest you *try* to find something that you think President Obama may have gotten right.  i think Maddox and Gorsuch are good picks that Trump made, but if you want to argue, you can.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2017 at 04:58
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I don't know, I am not an Iranian expert or a international relations wonk.  It doesn't really matter to me whether President Obama did everything wrong.  I didn't have any expectations of him in the first place.  Why do you feel like you have to tear him down?  Did you vote for him?  If you didn't vote for him, why do you act so betrayed.  Because Donald says you should?  Just because President Trump wants to tear down everything President Obama ever did is not a good reason for you to advocate the same.

This is a pissing contest, I am willing, for sake of argument, to believe that President Obama did "something" right, just as I am willing, for sake of argument, to believe that President Trump will do something right.  I don't necessarily know what those things will be/were but I think that they will do/ have done something right.
I don't want to be a part of their pissing contest, I am not pissed off, and I don't want to be pissed on.

I suggest you *try* to find something that you think President Obama may have gotten right.  i think Maddox and Gorsuch are good picks that Trump made, but if you want to argue, you can.
 
You make arguments against Trump that could be made to a greater extent against Obama. I feel the need to tear him down after 8 years because of the landslide you have leveled against Trump after 4 weeks.  Also resent deplorable type rhetoric leveled against his "fans" his "circles" and other derisive references made about people who what? didn't want Hillary?  
Myself and others feel betrayed by Obama for a variety of reasons. Mostly I'm disappointed that he didn't do anything for black people. I'm disappointed that he didn't take command during riots. I'm ashamed of the remarks he made about America overseas and at home. I'm frustrated by the healthcare costs, stagnant wages and lack of employment for too long. I'm disgusted at Benghazi , Syria , failure to respond to the refugee crisis in a timely manner and Hillary was promising more Obama so the basket of deplorables was acceptable hate speech from the democratic nominee that only fueled the riotous fires to follow. 
I'm not claiming to be professor of anything I know what happens at the grocery store, within the culture, the way people treat each other and the lack of progress in human conditions. Donald doesn't tell me what to do, certainly not in the way those in some circles have been defined by fake news. You have done your share of griping and I'll be happy to leave this right where it is.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2017 at 10:35
This is one pissing contest that I'm not going to enter.


I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2017 at 02:44
There is a fundamental difference between Donald Trump and Barack Obama.  Barack Obama is past tense, Donald Trump is future tense.  For Barack Obama, the camel is in the tent, that ship has sailed.  I would suggest you shout "bon voyage!" and under your breath if you want, say, "good riddance."  But realize that a lot of people voted for him (not me), and so just realize they might give you static (and rightfully so), if you say _everything_ about him was bad.  Donald Trump works we with all kinds of static, but other people don't.  Donald Trump works well with chaos, but that is because he is incredibly shallow, _which_he_considers_a_ virtue.  And some ways maybe it is, for him (in business), whether he can make it work in politics is another question.

I never voted for Barack Obama, and I had low expectations of him.  Why does he upset you so?  I think a lot of people voted for him and now have buyer's remorse.  He was the most radical, and probably the least experienced senator in the Senate, but that turned into a "virtue" because he didn't have a track record.  I voted for McCain in 2008, and Romney in 2012, although Romney was kinda marginal for me.
But, I don't need to tear him down, because I never built him up.  People _should_have_ looked into what they were buying, but they were being too orgasmic to pay attention.  I suspect for some people, they bought the hype about Obama, and again, now they have buyer's remorse and they are lashing out because they feel betrayed.  Betrayed by someone who said, "yes we can" and "change."  What exactly did you expect?  I didn't like Obama, but I don't think he was totally bad, and I don't like Trump, but I don't think he is totally bad either.  But any damage that Trump will do, politically, is future tense and so I worry about that, because I have seen what he has done business wise and personally, and that is worry-some.  Again, Obama's damage is past tense and so I don't worry about it so much.  Trump's damage is potentially in the future, and therefore I worry about it, _just_as_I_worried about Obama in his presidency.

arf, I got to walk the silky terrier right now....


Edited by franciscosan - 12 Feb 2017 at 02:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2017 at 03:55
Why was there no thread titled obloquy on Obama?

People are so afraid of being called racist they are racist.  The racism of low expectation is deplorable.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2017 at 13:02
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

There is a fundamental difference between Donald Trump and Barack Obama.  Barack Obama is past tense, Donald Trump is future tense.  For Barack Obama, the camel is in the tent, that ship has sailed.  I would suggest you shout "bon voyage!" and under your breath if you want, say, "good riddance."  But realize that a lot of people voted for him (not me), and so just realize they might give you static (and rightfully so), if you say _everything_ about him was bad.  Donald Trump works we with all kinds of static, but other people don't.  Donald Trump works well with chaos, but that is because he is incredibly shallow, _which_he_considers_a_ virtue.  And some ways maybe it is, for him (in business), whether he can make it work in politics is another question.

I never voted for Barack Obama, and I had low expectations of him.  Why does he upset you so?  I think a lot of people voted for him and now have buyer's remorse.  He was the most radical, and probably the least experienced senator in the Senate, but that turned into a "virtue" because he didn't have a track record.  I voted for McCain in 2008, and Romney in 2012, although Romney was kinda marginal for me.
But, I don't need to tear him down, because I never built him up.  People _should_have_ looked into what they were buying, but they were being too orgasmic to pay attention.  I suspect for some people, they bought the hype about Obama, and again, now they have buyer's remorse and they are lashing out because they feel betrayed.  Betrayed by someone who said, "yes we can" and "change."  What exactly did you expect?  I didn't like Obama, but I don't think he was totally bad, and I don't like Trump, but I don't think he is totally bad either.  But any damage that Trump will do, politically, is future tense and so I worry about that, because I have seen what he has done business wise and personally, and that is worry-some.  Again, Obama's damage is past tense and so I don't worry about it so much.  Trump's damage is potentially in the future, and therefore I worry about it, _just_as_I_worried about Obama in his presidency.

arf, I got to walk the silky terrier right now....

Obama will not be in the past until he stops encouraging the leftists loons who are trying to stifle free speech. 
I don't run around saying everything Obama did was bad. I avoided the polls this time. After the campaign Hillary was to me a monster of apocalyptic proportions. They both scared me but H. is why I'm glad Trump won.

You have not been balanced in your remarks about Trump to the point that some perspective was in order. Perspective on what we had with O., might have had with H., a continuation of the disaster that was his administration. The shallow persona of Trump and his uncomplicated way is a shock, word to franciscosan :)   that's how most people talk.. Also he has been an icon for decades and is pretty comfortable on camera, it is a plus for him. I don't remember much in the way of verbose speechifying from H. A lot of monotone droning or the higher pitched yet still very Nurse Ratchet ,angry at Bill excruciating delivery and she lied a lot.

Obama upsets me because he was a terrible president. He wasn't held to meaningful standards. Lowered expectations in a cafeteria lady is fine but not in a president. Bobby Knight BB coach Indiana, supported O. but admits now that he was not ready for prime time, and it wasn't his fault. Ii agree. I never bought into the messiah or the change mantra. Didn't think he'd ever understand diplomacy not after Dreams of my Father. 
So all these fears and excuses for giving people "static" are unacceptable when it comes to assault and destruction of property. How about that "circle"? Democrats can proudly claim them no one attacked Obama supporters. Rest assured its been 8 years of "concern" for a good percentage of Americans living under the past regime -53% of Americans approve of travel ban.
-has Obama done anything for your silky terrier?


Edited by Vanuatu - 12 Feb 2017 at 13:03
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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