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Why SS Africa became the main slave supplier?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 14:36
Nobody cared how many slaves died. That's the brutal reality. Perhaps 100.000 natives died in the Caribbean as a consecuence of the invasion. The slaves that died working were several millions.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 14:45

Not many cared about how many natives died and perhaps even fewer cared about the African slaves. But it was considered a neccesity to bring in African slaves since the number of available natives plumbed drastically.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 15:30
No wonder. The Europeans robbed all the women to the natives. Check the genetics of the Hispanic Caribbean.The myth of the extinction of Tainos is protestant BS.


Edited by pinguin - 12 May 2011 at 15:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 15:34

Actually it was more a matter of violence and desease that decimated the natives.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 15:46
You are a parrot that repeats the Black legend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 15:51
Just take a check in Stannards American Holocaust for an overview, where the author lists a lot of examples of the exterminations committed by the Spaniards (and others). His claims are also consistent with other sources and authors
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 16:09
As I said: you are a protestant parrot that repeats every BS available.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 16:22
The truth is the truth even if some apologists try to deny it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 16:26
You speak like a priest. "The truth!" "Be ashamed sinners... the hell is waiting for ya"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 18:38
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Just take a check in Stannards American Holocaust for an overview, where the author lists a lot of examples of the exterminations committed by the Spaniards (and others). His claims are also consistent with other sources and authors
 
As forthrightly stated elsewhere, Stannard's little opus is not History nor is it factual but instead represents diatribe in search of caricature. For one thing by 1590, the Amerind populations in Spanish America had begun to rebound and was actually increasing. One need no further evidence to establish that fact than to simply look at present numbers. By the way, the greatest flaw in all of the blather put forth by Stannard is that he presupposes fantastic populations numbers prior to 1492 that are completely untenable with respect to the "agrarian technology within their ecosystems"--to use your favored obtuse vocabulary. The bottom line here is that historically, smallpox and measles and little else was responsible for the drastic decimation of aboriginal populations at contact. And for your information the abuse of the rhetorical treatises prepared by Las Casas as "source material" for the phantasms of genocide glibly ignores the fundamental reasons for their preparation: the enacting of royal legislation guaranteeing the legal status and rights of the Amerind. That often he hyperventilated should be something very familiar to your rhetorical style of argument.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2011 at 18:48
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Just take a check in Stannards American Holocaust for an overview, where the author lists a lot of examples of the exterminations committed by the Spaniards (and others). His claims are also consistent with other sources and authors
 
As forthrightly stated elsewhere, Stannard's little opus is not History nor is it factual but instead represents diatribe in search of caricature. For one thing by 1590, the Amerind populations in Spanish America had begun to rebound and was actually increasing. One need no further evidence to establish that fact than to simply look at present numbers. By the way, the greatest flaw in all of the blather put forth by Stannard is that he presupposes fantastic populations numbers prior to 1492 that are completely untenable with respect to the "agrarian technology within their ecosystems"--to use your favored obtuse vocabulary. The bottom line here is that historically, smallpox and measles and little else was responsible for the drastic decimation of aboriginal populations at contact. And for your information the abuse of the rhetorical treatises prepared by Las Casas as "source material" for the phantasms of genocide glibly ignores the fundamental reasons for their preparation: the enacting of royal legislation guaranteeing the legal status and rights of the Amerind. That often he hyperventilated should be something very familiar to your rhetorical style of argument.


Brilliant and well documented argument. Congrats doc.
The truth is that even today the Amerindian DNA makeup in places like Cuba, DR and specially in PR is very high.  That wouldn't be possible if the Indian population had become extinct.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2011 at 11:35
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

  
As forthrightly stated elsewhere, Stannard's little opus is not History nor is it factual but instead represents diatribe in search of caricature. For one thing by 1590, the Amerind populations in Spanish America had begun to rebound and was actually increasing. One need no further evidence to establish that fact than to simply look at present numbers. By the way, the greatest flaw in all of the blather put forth by Stannard is that he presupposes fantastic populations numbers prior to 1492 that are completely untenable with respect to the "agrarian technology within their ecosystems"--to use your favored obtuse vocabulary. The bottom line here is that historically, smallpox and measles and little else was responsible for the drastic decimation of aboriginal populations at contact. And for your information the abuse of the rhetorical treatises prepared by Las Casas as "source material" for the phantasms of genocide glibly ignores the fundamental reasons for their preparation: the enacting of royal legislation guaranteeing the legal status and rights of the Amerind. That often he hyperventilated should be something very familiar to your rhetorical style of argument.
 
Actually if one compare Stannards claims with his source material it ends up quite well, even if he can exaggerate numbers now and then. But since historical source material many times are somewhat ambigous conserning numbers his estimations are not more dubious than other, more apologetic or revisionist authors.
 
And that precolumbian amerindian populations in certain areas were higher than earlier estimations show becomes more and more obvious in the light of modern archaeological investigations. Just take the example of the Amazon as we have discussed in another thread. One bias in older research is that it did not take the full scope of amerindian agricultural, horticultural, aquacultural or other methods of land utilisation into consideration.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2011 at 11:37
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Brilliant and well documented argument. Congrats doc.
The truth is that even today the Amerindian DNA makeup in places like Cuba, DR and specially in PR is very high.  That wouldn't be possible if the Indian population had become extinct.
 
Actually it is enough that you have a few people of mixed race in the first place and then let them procreate with each other and increase their numbers, then you will in due time have a lot of people with mixed heritage. That do not show that the original non mixed people, or their cultures are not destroyed and gone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2011 at 12:54
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Brilliant and well documented argument. Congrats doc.
The truth is that even today the Amerindian DNA makeup in places like Cuba, DR and specially in PR is very high.  That wouldn't be possible if the Indian population had become extinct.
 
Actually it is enough that you have a few people of mixed race in the first place and then let them procreate with each other and increase their numbers, then you will in due time have a lot of people with mixed heritage. That do not show that the original non mixed people, or their cultures are not destroyed and gone.
 
In the immortal words of Jackie Gleason..."And awaaaaay we go!" However, in this instance we are not going to let our resident "Johnny One Note" lead us into his lair but instead shall simply "cut him off at the pass". Culture is continuously redefined by human adaptation and sensibilities and what becomes uncouth is continuously jettisoned or reshaped in response to new exigencies. The Pueblo people of New Mexico are still there [as are countless other ethnic Amerinds within the milieu of the Americas] and were it not for your blatant ignorance of the Americas, Carch, you would not be leaving yourself continuously open to repetitive ridicule. Even Evo Morales is cognizant of the autonomy once held by the Aymara and Quechua peoples of the Altiplano shaped during the colonial period and is hell-bent on reintroducing their old cabildos as a measure of local governance. Please know your history and not the bullish blather of advocacy groups that are essentially ignoramuses on the actual past.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2011 at 13:20
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

  The Pueblo people of New Mexico are still there [as are countless other ethnic Amerinds within the milieu of the Americas]
 
Yes, the Pueblos are still there, but countless other Amerindian peoples and cultures are actually not there anymore, they have in different ways (violence, slavery, displacement, forceful assimilation, diseases) been exterminated by the invaders.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2011 at 15:02
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

And that precolumbian amerindian populations in certain areas were higher than earlier estimations show becomes more and more obvious in the light of modern archaeological investigations. Just take the example of the Amazon as we have discussed in another thread. One bias in older research is that it did not take the full scope of amerindian agricultural, horticultural, aquacultural or other methods of land utilisation into consideration.


Again resorting to your lunatics authors? Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2011 at 15:03
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Yes, the Pueblos are still there, but countless other Amerindian peoples and cultures are actually not there anymore, they have in different ways (violence, slavery, displacement, forceful assimilation, diseases) been exterminated by the invaders.


Didn't you consider voluntary assimilation? Confused... What a propaganda machine are you! Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2011 at 15:04
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

...The Pueblo people of New Mexico are still there [as are countless other ethnic Amerinds within the milieu of the Americas] and were it not for your blatant ignorance of the Americas, Carch, you would not be leaving yourself continuously open to repetitive ridicule. Even Evo Morales is cognizant of the autonomy once held by the Aymara and Quechua peoples of the Altiplano shaped during the colonial period and is hell-bent on reintroducing their old cabildos as a measure of local governance. Please know your history and not the bullish blather of advocacy groups that are essentially ignoramuses on the actual past.


Againt, brilliant Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2011 at 15:12
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Actually it is enough that you have a few people of mixed race in the first place and then let them procreate with each other and increase their numbers, then you will in due time have a lot of people with mixed heritage. That do not show that the original non mixed people, or their cultures are not destroyed and gone.


Of course the "original" people is not here anymore. They mixed Confused... You are so repetitive. What do you expect, that they stayed quite waiting for dissapearing? No sir, they made buddies theirs invaders, and some people did quite well with the change. They addopted Christianity and European customs, and theirs descendents are abundant. Even more, one of the best ways to acquire immunity for the foreign diseases was precisely mixing with the invaders.

With respect to culture, yes, some cultures got extinct, but not all. In coutries like myself we have a native heritage in foods, traditions, legends, literature, language, poetry, music and textiles, that it is the envy of foreigners.


Edited by pinguin - 13 May 2011 at 15:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2011 at 15:12
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

And that precolumbian amerindian populations in certain areas were higher than earlier estimations show becomes more and more obvious in the light of modern archaeological investigations. Just take the example of the Amazon as we have discussed in another thread. One bias in older research is that it did not take the full scope of amerindian agricultural, horticultural, aquacultural or other methods of land utilisation into consideration.


Again resorting to your lunatics authors? Confused
 
It is indeed not to resort to any lunatics to follow the latest archaeological and scientific knowledge in American archaeology.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2011 at 15:13
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Yes, the Pueblos are still there, but countless other Amerindian peoples and cultures are actually not there anymore, they have in different ways (violence, slavery, displacement, forceful assimilation, diseases) been exterminated by the invaders.


Didn't you consider voluntary assimilation? Confused... What a propaganda machine are you! Ouch
 
Much assimilation is forceful, or at least a result of political and economic manipulation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2011 at 15:15
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

 
It is indeed not to resort to any lunatics to follow the latest archaeological and scientific knowledge in American archaeology.


You follow what is convenient for your dogma, priest!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2011 at 15:16
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Much assimilation is forceful, or at least a result of political and economic manipulation.


Lier
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2011 at 15:16
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Of course the "original" people is not here anymore. They mixed Confused...
 
Some mixed, but many were actually exterminated by violence, slavery, displacement and forceful assimilation. It seems that you exaggerate the mixing just to apologize the destruction of Amerindian peoples.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2011 at 15:17
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Much assimilation is forceful, or at least a result of political and economic manipulation.


Lier
 
It seems that it is you who do not like to see the ugly truth of the destruction of indigenous Amerindian peoples.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2011 at 15:36
It seems that you have no idea of what you talk about, parrot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2011 at 15:41
It seems that you just want to hide the truth about the extermination of countless Amerindian peoples and cultures behind a mythology of peaceful intermixing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2011 at 15:50
The problem here is yours ignorance on the topic, clown.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2011 at 15:54
There are actually a lot of documentation about amerindian peoples being in different ways exterminated, so if you do not know that it is you who show ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2011 at 16:09
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

There are actually a lot of documentation about amerindian peoples being in different ways exterminated, so if you do not know that it is you who show ignorance.


I know 100 more documentation on the topic that your "survival INC." could lend you.
The problem with you, Carcha, is that you lack perspective. You can't see things beyond the cartoon.

You are trying to grasp a 500 years period, in a continent with 80 times more people than Sweden, and where your Scandinavia would fit 100 or more times! And you don't understand the details.
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