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Why was Tawain Ignored for so long?

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fusong View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Mar 2012 at 18:04
I wonder why Taiwan so close to the Chinese Mainland was not colonized until the 1600's-  and that was to get rid of the Portuguese bases.

OF course I know it's not the best place to build a farm but still they could have mined in the mountains..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paradigm of Humanity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2012 at 01:36
I wondered too. Maybe lack of sufficient arable land as you said. Also I doubt if Chinese had any passion for expanding. They prefered to take tributes from whoever they donimated. But Taiwan had uncivilized wild native people from Chinese perpective. They were also few in numbers, you can only expect a few tribute from them (I don't even know if they used gold for exchange). So, Chinese decided effort doesn't worth. Tongue

While playing Europa Universalis III, I always colonise Taiwan, doesn't matter I'm playing as Japanese, Malayan or a European nation. Just I love that island LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fusong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 02:28
Originally posted by Paradigm of Humanity Paradigm of Humanity wrote:

I wondered too. Maybe lack of sufficient arable land as you said. Also I doubt if Chinese had any passion for expanding. They prefered to take tributes from whoever they donimated. But Taiwan had uncivilized wild native people from Chinese perpective. They were also few in numbers, you can only expect a few tribute from them (I don't even know if they used gold for exchange). So, Chinese decided effort doesn't worth. Tongue

While playing Europa Universalis III, I always colonise Taiwan, doesn't matter I'm playing as Japanese, Malayan or a European nation. Just I love that island LOL


sino centrism prevented the global sino sphere
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paradigm of Humanity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 12:03
Originally posted by fusong fusong wrote:


sino centrism prevented the global sino sphere

It was unnecessary. Chinese had everything they could need. Wealth, population, resources, art, science... Where could they expand for improving their situation further?


Edited by Paradigm of Humanity - 11 Mar 2012 at 12:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 12:08
It was actually taken from the Dutch and only because Chinese pirates needed a new base to operate due to their struggle with Manchu.
 
Why was it "ignored"? Very simple. Chinese rulers never demonstrated any interest in conducting government sponsored overseas exploration and colonization, except an outstanding case of Zheng He expeditions. China, essentially, was a land-based empire unlike the Netherlands or Britain for example.
 
Interestingly, however, common Chinese folks were very adventerous and moved overseas whenever they saw opportunities. Even before Zheng Chenggong wrestled the island from the Dutch it had been already inhabited by the Chinese farmers that the Dutch themselves had transported from the Mainland.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2012 at 00:57
Taiwan was not a chinese land to start with. Taiwan was invaded by China like Tibet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paradigm of Humanity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2012 at 01:52
I'm not being sarcastic but sincerely asking you for understanding your principles of sovereignty. What we Turks should do? Turks conquered/seized, settled and (although themselves were being low in number) caused mass Turkification of Asia Minor. Also if time justifies this in your perpective, Taiwan is Chinese for centuries. I'm curious about your answers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2012 at 23:34
Taiwan was not 'ignored', but settlement was haphazard due to the warlike propensities of the various Aboriginal peoples, who hunted heads right up into the early 20th Century. Chinese settlers in Taiwan did mine sulfer-nitrate for sale. But the terrain and hostile locals kept Taiwan a frontier area right up until the Japanese took an interest in the late 1800s. 

For anyone interested in a Chinese view of Taiwan in the 1600s, I would recommend Macabe Keliher's "Out of China: or Yu Yonghe's Tales of Formosa" (SMC Publishing, Taiwan, 2003) which may be on-line somewhere.


Edited by lirelou - 14 Mar 2012 at 23:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fusong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2012 at 15:17
Originally posted by lirelou lirelou wrote:

Taiwan was not 'ignored', but settlement was haphazard due to the warlike propensities of the various Aboriginal peoples, who hunted heads right up into the early 20th Century. Chinese settlers in Taiwan did mine sulfer-nitrate for sale. But the terrain and hostile locals kept Taiwan a frontier area right up until the Japanese took an interest in the late 1800s. 

For anyone interested in a Chinese view of Taiwan in the 1600s, I would recommend Macabe Keliher's "Out of China: or Yu Yonghe's Tales of Formosa" (SMC Publishing, Taiwan, 2003) which may be on-line somewhere.

Thanks for the book suggestions, was there any Chinese activity on the island during the han or the 3rd century jin dynasties?  


Edited by fusong - 15 Mar 2012 at 15:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2012 at 02:53
Given Keliher's account of Yu Yonghe attitudes towards Taiwan, and his voyage, I would have to say that Taiwan was considered beyond the Pale by the Chinese of the 17th Century, so any Chinese contacts with Taiwan prior to that must have been haphazard at best.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2012 at 10:10
Originally posted by lirelou lirelou wrote:

Taiwan was not 'ignored', but settlement was haphazard due to the warlike propensities of the various Aboriginal peoples, who hunted heads right up into the early 20th Century. Chinese settlers in Taiwan did mine sulfer-nitrate for sale. But the terrain and hostile locals kept Taiwan a frontier area right up until the Japanese took an interest in the late 1800s. 

For anyone interested in a Chinese view of Taiwan in the 1600s, I would recommend Macabe Keliher's "Out of China: or Yu Yonghe's Tales of Formosa" (SMC Publishing, Taiwan, 2003) which may be on-line somewhere.
 
Tha main reason why Taiwan was "ignored" is general indifference of Chinese to maritime adventures and colonization.
 
Historically Chinese have been reluctant to start the colonization of overseas land by their own.
 
The "locals" argument doesn't work. Chinese were able when needed to gather a massive army and wrestle the island from the Dutch which were much more dangerous then locals.
 
By the end of the 19th century most of the aboriginals were assimilated by Chinese, except the mountain tribes in the remote western part of the island.
 
Taiwan did get enough attention of the Central government to the point that it was awarded a status of a separate province.
 
BTW, speaking of the Taiwanese aboriginal people. There was recently a historical epic made in Taiwan (which is supposed to be the most expensive Taiwanese movie ever made) about their uprising against Japanese in 1930 (so-called "Wushe incident").
 
You can check the trailer here
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Centrix Redux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2012 at 10:36
Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

It was actually taken from the Dutch and only because Chinese pirates needed a new base to operate due to their struggle with Manchu.
 
Why was it "ignored"? Very simple. Chinese rulers never demonstrated any interest in conducting government sponsored overseas exploration and colonization, except an outstanding case of Zheng He expeditions. China, essentially, was a land-based empire unlike the Netherlands or Britain for example.
 
Interestingly, however, common Chinese folks were very adventerous and moved overseas whenever they saw opportunities. Even before Zheng Chenggong wrestled the island from the Dutch it had been already inhabited by the Chinese farmers that the Dutch themselves had transported from the Mainland.
 
Quite the remarkable man. And still a patriot on both sides of the Chinese political persuasion.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote RollingWave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 08:11
There are several general reasons.

The most obvious is the problem that SE China was populated relatively late. despite the fact that today you see Southern China being heavily populated, historically it was a gradual southward shift. 

The second is that when overpopulation did force people to move elsewhere, they usually look for the easiest place to go, and in that respect Taiwan, needing to cross the Ocean, and ontop of that it's basically completely undeveloped land, this isnt' like going to SE Asia where your essentially just setting up shops / communities in already civilized worlds, so the incentive simply wasn't strong for either the merchants who had the ability to cross to Taiwan, or the farmers who would like to seek undeveloped lands.
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