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will dems self-destruct?

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    Posted: 30 Jan 2019 at 00:36
So far the democrats are racing to the left.  (no pun originally intended).  They can't embrace socialism fast enough, a naive fringe.  Consequently, they have abandoned traditional liberalism (not classical liberalism), a former CEO of Starbucks, (Howard Shultz), is appealing to the middle running on an Independent ticket, to the horror of radical pundits.
In American politics of Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dummer, third parties tend to split the vote.  A liberal independent would siphon away voters from the increasingly radical democrats.  Ross Perot was possibly a spoiler for George H. W. Bush, (getting Clinton elected), the democrats blamed Nader for the defeat of Al Gore.  One can guess which looser took it gracefully and which did not.
It is within the democrat's power to pick a moderate, but the energy of the party is now on the left.  They are determined to commit political suicide (and blame it on anyone else besides themselves).  Donald Trump may not be that appetizing, but socialist big government hardly seems like a viable alternative.  Of course, the rule for politics is that if your opponent is going to commit suicide, don't get in their way.


Edited by franciscosan - 30 Jan 2019 at 23:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 16:38
Too bad mainstream media didn't make much noise about pathological abortionist Kermit Gosnell. He is surprisingly unknown and thus wouldn't have the name recognition or late night tv bookings that democrats have cherished since Obama. At least Clinton was a musician sort of.

Kermit G. walks the walk for current democratic platform- fighting for what all american women want according to leftist loons.http://https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/31347-effort-to-allow-full-term-abortion-defeated-in-virginia Democrat Delegate Kathy Tran, under questioning, admitted that her legislation would permit abortions at 40 weeks. Forty weeks is a full-term abortion. Tran argued that full-term abortion would be allowed if it were considered necessary to protect a woman’s mental or physical health. (This, despite that there is no evidence that such late third-trimester abortions are ever necessary for a woman’s physical health. Mental health, of course, is like the proverbial loophole big enough to drive a truck through.)

It seems "we the people" want to eliminate full term babies over tea. And your not getting that immoral WALL Mr President!



https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dr-kermit-gosnell-trial/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2019 at 20:11
In Japanese baseball a tie game is a good game.
In American baseball a shutout is a good game.

The Japanese like for everybody to save face.
Americans like to have morality plays where someone wears the white hat, and some wears the black hat (figuratively speaking of course).  "Evil-doers beware!" (the Tick).

In one comic book, the Tick and Arthur (Mothman), are training a new superhero team, the Mite, and Butterfly man.  The Mite says, "we have got to stop evil!"  At which point the Tick says, "no."  The Mite says, "no?", the Tick says, "no, if we stop evil then what are we going to fight?"  Identity politicians remind me of that, they're more concerned with the morality play, then making things better (for everybody).  "Good versus evil."

Some on the left sound like women "want" abortions, as if they in themselves are a "good" thing, instead of possibly the least bad of some bad options.  Having abortions available gives women the excuse for having gone home with the looser they went home with last week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2019 at 04:28
Thomas Sowell researched teen pregnancy rates and found that they increased after sex education became mandatory, teehee

Massive "sex education" programs were put into schools, claiming that this was urgently needed to reduce a "crisis" of teenage pregnancies and venereal diseases. But teenage pregnancies and venereal diseases had both been going down for years.

The rate of infection for gonorrhea, for example, declined every year from 1950 through 1959, and the rate of syphilis infection was, by 1960, less than half of what it had been in 1950. Both trends reversed and skyrocketed after "sex education" became pervasive.



Edited by Vanuatu - 03 Feb 2019 at 04:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2019 at 05:17
I think of the wall as a bit of a boondoggle, but it is not unlike democrats to be in love with their own boondoggles.  Johnson's War on Poverty as part of his Great Society.  In the New Deal, at least the purpose was to give people who wanted to work, a chance to work.  The War on Poverty supported people who didn't want to work, creating a pauper class.  When it didn't work, LBJ's administration changed the goal post and declared victory.  The democrats are good at changing the stated goals and declaring victory, I am sure it was done with sex education too.  Can't criticize the alphabet soup of LGBTQ, might hurt their feelings, I am sure it hurt their feelings in the 80s too, when they resisted infectious disease control measures in the United States.  Other countries such as Cuba and Great Britain had a more sensical approach, and less of a death toll, I understand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2019 at 16:04
Quote sensical
???

But to asnwer your question, I wouldn't think so.

Having spent some time in the political wilderness which is Opposition, I would think that the Dems will attack Trump on every front, while at the same time pushing their own political policy agenda.

The ground is fertile for new seed to be sowed, IMHO, as many Americans are heartily disappointed in the man that they elected and his modus operandi.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2019 at 16:14
Quote The ground is fertile for new seed to be sowed, IMHO, as many Americans are heartily disappointed in the man that they elected and his modus operandi.
The American public is currently discouraged by the nonsense in Washington no doubt. Are you kidding? More people are disgusted with the democrats in Virginia right now by a HUGE margin, but you would not know that if you watch Democrat sponsored TV.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2019 at 20:19
People looking at the Democrats might decide that the evil they know is better than the evil you don't know.  Or that the bloodsuckers in office are sated and therefore don't need to gorge themselves on the body politic, while the bloodsuckers out of office are hungry to feed.
Or maybe, Baba O'Reilly

meet the new boss, same as the old boss,
just like yesterday, get on our knees and pray,
We won't get fooled again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2019 at 23:48
There is no one on the democrat side who could beat Trump if the election were held tomorrow. Trump wins in 2020 and now it doesn't feel like new boss/old boss situation. Trump is nothing like the old boss and some people are encouraged by the economic growth. Some of us are also glad that the border emergency will be dealt with finally. 

Democrat pundits have resorted to the lowest kind of speech and inclination, denying the sickening reality of third term abortion. 

Democrats make Trump seem genteel and are so unappealing with sour faces while we have seen positive progress on some major issues. 

They also understand that Mueller has nothing in his "investigation" to hang Trump on, Bill Barr's nomination was advanced and he will be the new AG. Mueller is toast and the way they talk about Barr, it's safe to say it's over for democrats -just some perfunctory kicking and screaming.


Edited by Vanuatu - 08 Feb 2019 at 18:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 00:07
I don't know that Mueller has "nothing."  He is going after smaller fish so far, maybe he has nothing _as you say_, and maybe not.  But, I do think that thinking Trump is "innocent" is like thinking whatshername is a virgin.  Of course, "guilt" is not in his vocabulary.  He probably _could_ shoot someone on the street and not care.

But, if you are saying that Donald Trump is the lesser of evils, you may be right considering who the democrats are flirting with.  In 2016 it was Hillary's game to loose, and she snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.  The democrats (again) think they have it in the bag.

You know what a yellow dog democrat is?  If the democrats put up a yellow dog for mayor and the Republicans put up Jesus Christ, a yellow dog democrat would vote for the yellow dog, because he is a democrat.  The democrats seem to think they can put up anyone against Trump and "win."  I think that they will discover that a lot of people would prefer the yellow dog, to the reds they seem to be putting up for election.

I don't know if I would consider Trump an old boss or a new boss, but I would consider him like a Mafia boss who thinks he should get utter loyalty while throwing others under the boss.  But in one way at least he is not like a Mafia Don, in that he cannot stomach to pull the trigger, but counts on underlings to fire those that fall out of favor.  The image of him on the Apprentice firing people is largely a sham.  As far as the economy is concerned, I feel that anyone after Obama haranguing businessmen would have an improvement.  Obama 'cooked the books' to make it appear that the economy was doing better, I doubt Trump has done anything to fix those (distortive) economic statistics that Obama created, like people a long while out of work being dropped from the unemployment category. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 03:21
Mueller has a lot to hide about his own hand picked team of assassins already showing incredible bias before being selected for the Russia Probe. Many on his team were involved with the dossier, James Clapper admitted this about himself and Comey not to mention the Clinton campaign and some DOJ officials. 

Bill Barr, soon to be new AG, is a serious man. He is friends with Mueller but squeaky clean unlike Mueller. His deceptive "narrative indictments" convinced the likes of General Flynn that evidence had been collected and proved collusion by Trump campaign. Not being a lawyer you understand, Flynn like some people, just didn't understand the legal two-stepping. Under pressure to spare his son from threats made by Mueller he confesses to lying when his interrogators admit that he did not lie. False confessions are not uncommon and well documented especially in Mueller's FBI. Also very common for the FBI FISA court applications to leave out essential details such as requesting subpoenas but declining to say that the targets were already paid FBI informants. Paul Manafort's charges were not related to Trump's campaign. See a full list at Vox 

It’s a sprawling set of allegations, encompassing both election interference charges against overseas Russians, and various other crimes by American Trump advisers.

However, Mueller hasn’t yet alleged any crimes directly connecting the two — that is, alleging that Trump advisers conspired with Russian officials to impact the election. He is continuing to investigate that.

Other reported focuses of Mueller’s investigation — such as potential obstruction of justiceby the Trump administration — have also not resulted in any indictments yet.



Edited by Vanuatu - 11 Feb 2019 at 03:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 03:54
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I don't know that Mueller has "nothing."  He is going after smaller fish so far, maybe he has nothing _as you say_, and maybe not.  But, I do think that thinking Trump is "innocent" is like thinking whatshername is a virgin.  Of course, "guilt" is not in his vocabulary.  He probably _could_ shoot someone on the street and not care.
"But, I do think that thinking Trump is "innocent" Really?
Right bc all I've said is how INNOCENT Trump is, pppft
That comment is grasping and beneath you. 

YOU ARE NOT INNOCENT! NOR AM I! NOR IS OUR FRIEND IN AU!
Why would Trump be innocent?
False charges against a son of bitch, are STILL FALSE ! 
And when it's the DNC, DOJ, CIA and FBI creating a false narrative, that bothers me a lot, glad you can ignore it in favor of hating Trump for fashion's sake
It's like Jordan Peterson asked- when the hell do you say this is the limit and I can't move any further away from what I know to be right?


Edited by Vanuatu - 11 Feb 2019 at 03:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 07:47
Quote NOR IS OUR FRIEND IN AU!

I hope you're not talking about me!!!
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 12:21
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote NOR IS OUR FRIEND IN AU!

I hope you're not talking about me!!!
I'm not talking about Olivia Newton John!!!

When were you innocent? 
Not Guilty is more like it.


Edited by Vanuatu - 11 Feb 2019 at 12:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 13:55
Quote I'm not talking about Olivia Newton John!!!

Hugh Jackman?
Eric Bana?
Ah, Paul Hogan, right?

Quote When were you innocent? 
Not Guilty is more like it.

That would depend of what crime or offence that you intend to level at me.

Dislike Donald Trump-fair cop guv, you've got me.

Robbing banks-innocent and not guilty.

If you're going to level accusations against me, make them clear, don't muck about girl, speak up.Thumbs Down

Quote "But, I do think that thinking Trump is "innocent" Really?
Right bc all I've said is how INNOCENT Trump is, pppft

And you're wrong again, face up to it.

Quote Why would Trump be innocent?
He's not. CNN said so.Wink

Quote False charges against a son of bitch, are STILL FALSE !
 

Many a son-of -bitch has been convicted because he's a son-of-a-bitch and needs to convicted for the public good.

Quote And when it's the DNC, DOJ, CIA and FBI creating a false narrative, that bothers me a lot, glad you can ignore it in favor of hating Trump for fashion's sake
It's like Jordan Peterson asked- when the hell do you say this is the limit and I can't move any further away from what I know to be right?

And now you turn on some of the worlds leading Intelligence and Law Enforcement agencies-just like Trump. When will you ever learn?

Hating Trump gives purpose to my day and makes me feel good. Why should I stop?



Edited by toyomotor - 11 Feb 2019 at 14:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 15:09
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote I'm not talking about Olivia Newton John!!!

Hugh Jackman?
Eric Bana?
Ah, Paul Hogan, right?

Quote When were you innocent? 
Not Guilty is more like it.

That would depend of what crime or offence that you intend to level at me.

Dislike Donald Trump-fair cop guv, you've got me.

Robbing banks-innocent and not guilty.

If you're going to level accusations against me, make them clear, don't muck about girl, speak up.Thumbs Down

Quote "But, I do think that thinking Trump is "innocent" Really?
Right bc all I've said is how INNOCENT Trump is, pppft

And you're wrong again, face up to it.

Quote Why would Trump be innocent?
He's not. CNN said so.Wink

Quote False charges against a son of bitch, are STILL FALSE !
 

Many a son-of -bitch has been convicted because he's a son-of-a-bitch and needs to convicted for the public good.

Quote And when it's the DNC, DOJ, CIA and FBI creating a false narrative, that bothers me a lot, glad you can ignore it in favor of hating Trump for fashion's sake
It's like Jordan Peterson asked- when the hell do you say this is the limit and I can't move any further away from what I know to be right?

And now you turn on some of the worlds leading Intelligence and Law Enforcement agencies-just like Trump. When will you ever learn?

Hating Trump gives purpose to my day and makes me feel good. Why should I stop?

Hate him all you want it's the lying to yourself that should bother you.

You are not innocent in any sense of the word.That's the reason defendants are found NOT GUILTY instead of INNOCENT.

You would convict on false charges bc you hate Trump? 
OK glad I know where you stand and wonder if you didn't employ the "bc I don't like you" rational when you were on the job. 

I didn't accuse you of a crime I said you are not innocent. And have not been since you pushed off mother's teat.

I never said Trump was INNOCENT! I said the liberal media, ANTIFA, democrats and leftists were behaving much worse than racist Trump, who by the way doesn't appear in black face or in a KKK costume like the Dixiecrat posers in Virginia. 

Lastly save the "girl" for your children, you step all over my posts for "name calling."
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 00:23
LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 23:49
Are the charges against Manafort false?  Flynn?  Cohen?  Stone?  Papadopoulos?  Are they innocents?martyrs? or did they get caught fair and square?

Did Cohen pay off two bimbos?  Why shouldn't that be considered a campaign contribution?  Did the editor of National Enquirer work to suppress the news of one of those bimbo eruptions?  Is that just an act of friendship or is that a campaign contribution?  I believe the sentencing agreement looked upon it as an example of the later.  Did he try to blackmail Bezos, or was he just trying to get the news 'accurately portrayed' regarding the supposed uninvolvement of the Saudis.  Whatever it was, was it violation of his plea agreement?  Was Stone courting wikileaks and what was his role in getting them to release the Clinton emails?

When I say Trump is not innocent, I think in terms of Scottish (?) law, where there are 3 possible verdicts, guilty, innocent, and not guilty.  Not guilty means that the person under trial was not guilty of that particular charge, but they could be brought up on another charge and tried on the basically the same or a similar matter.  Trump is not guilty at best, but Mueller has not brought him up on charges, presumably not yet.  We don't know what he has, and neither does Trump, although not knowing has never kept Trump from acting.  Mueller is not vocal in the press, nor disparaging President Trump, he is acting in a legal capacity not a media capacity.  Trump blasts Mueller and Mueller takes it.  The media blasts Trump, and Trump blasts back.  Mueller does not leak to the media.  I think you can fault the media (and the media can fault Trump, but they are not exactly an impartial actor).  But, as far as public appearance is concerned, Mueller really doesn't say anything.

I am sure you will find some trivial detail wrong with what I say, and dismiss the whole.  I believe that the jury has a right to be activist if they find an extreme necessity for it.  Lawyers and judges hate it, but if they want to rule someone obviously guilty as innocent, or obviously innocent guilty (and points in between), they can.  That includes where what happened is murky, and the jury chooses to interpret in a definite manner.  Now it may be thrown out on appeal, but that is another story.  So, yes if you are a rotten excuse for a human being, that counts for something.  But, I am talking about extreme hypothetical cases.  In a way, if the media convicts him in the court of public opinion, then how do you get a jury pool?  Of course, cross that bridge if or when we get to it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2019 at 00:17
When the media launches a campaign against an individual or a corporation, there often comes a time when getting a completely impartial decision on guilt or innocence is virtually impossible. Under these circumstances, it's been argued in the past that as a fair trial cannot be held, proceedings should be halted.

Take, for example, the case of El Chapo. The reporting on his activities has been so extensive and, allegedly impartial, that he was always going to be found guilty. And I'm not suggesting that he's innocent.

In the case of Donald Trump, he's created so much adverse media publicity that he possibly could never get a fair trial either.

As for the Democrats, I wouldn't have thought that they'll self destruct, not for a while anyway, but should they remain in power, especial with a Dem president after 2020, the road will be rough for a while.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2019 at 01:19
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Are the charges against Manafort false?  Flynn?  Cohen?  Stone?  Papadopoulos?  Are they innocents?martyrs? or did they get caught fair and square?
Nope, US won't accuse on no evidence. The "collusion" was a story there was no evidence for investigating Cohen or Manafort for collusion. Don't worry though investigating Hillary's deal giving Russians uranium might replace the national pastime.
Quote
Mueller does not leak to the media. 
No reason to believe that, he recently corrected a leak bc of AG Barr. 

Quote
I am sure you will find some trivial detail wrong with what I say, and dismiss the whole.  I believe that the jury has a right to be activist if they find an extreme necessity for it.

what jury? This was a prosecutor's allegations, there was no jury. 
 
Quote Lawyers and judges hate it, but if they want to rule someone obviously guilty as innocent, or obviously innocent guilty (and points in between), they can.  That includes where what happened is murky, and the jury chooses to interpret in a definite manner.  Now it may be thrown out on appeal, but that is another story.  So, yes if you are a rotten excuse for a human being, that counts for something.  But, I am talking about extreme hypothetical cases.  In a way, if the media convicts him in the court of public opinion, then how do you get a jury pool?  Of course, cross that bridge if or when we get to it. 
What's going to be thrown out on appeal? What the hell are you referring to?


Edited by Vanuatu - 13 Feb 2019 at 01:22
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