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will dems self-destruct?

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    Posted: 30 Jan 2019 at 10:36
So far the democrats are racing to the left.  (no pun originally intended).  They can't embrace socialism fast enough, a naive fringe.  Consequently, they have abandoned traditional liberalism (not classical liberalism), a former CEO of Starbucks, (Howard Shultz), is appealing to the middle running on an Independent ticket, to the horror of radical pundits.
In American politics of Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dummer, third parties tend to split the vote.  A liberal independent would siphon away voters from the increasingly radical democrats.  Ross Perot was possibly a spoiler for George H. W. Bush, (getting Clinton elected), the democrats blamed Nader for the defeat of Al Gore.  One can guess which looser took it gracefully and which did not.
It is within the democrat's power to pick a moderate, but the energy of the party is now on the left.  They are determined to commit political suicide (and blame it on anyone else besides themselves).  Donald Trump may not be that appetizing, but socialist big government hardly seems like a viable alternative.  Of course, the rule for politics is that if your opponent is going to commit suicide, don't get in their way.


Edited by franciscosan - 31 Jan 2019 at 09:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2019 at 02:38
Too bad mainstream media didn't make much noise about pathological abortionist Kermit Gosnell. He is surprisingly unknown and thus wouldn't have the name recognition or late night tv bookings that democrats have cherished since Obama. At least Clinton was a musician sort of.

Kermit G. walks the walk for current democratic platform- fighting for what all american women want according to leftist loons.http://https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/31347-effort-to-allow-full-term-abortion-defeated-in-virginia Democrat Delegate Kathy Tran, under questioning, admitted that her legislation would permit abortions at 40 weeks. Forty weeks is a full-term abortion. Tran argued that full-term abortion would be allowed if it were considered necessary to protect a woman’s mental or physical health. (This, despite that there is no evidence that such late third-trimester abortions are ever necessary for a woman’s physical health. Mental health, of course, is like the proverbial loophole big enough to drive a truck through.)

It seems "we the people" want to eliminate full term babies over tea. And your not getting that immoral WALL Mr President!



https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dr-kermit-gosnell-trial/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2019 at 06:11
In Japanese baseball a tie game is a good game.
In American baseball a shutout is a good game.

The Japanese like for everybody to save face.
Americans like to have morality plays where someone wears the white hat, and some wears the black hat (figuratively speaking of course).  "Evil-doers beware!" (the Tick).

In one comic book, the Tick and Arthur (Mothman), are training a new superhero team, the Mite, and Butterfly man.  The Mite says, "we have got to stop evil!"  At which point the Tick says, "no."  The Mite says, "no?", the Tick says, "no, if we stop evil then what are we going to fight?"  Identity politicians remind me of that, they're more concerned with the morality play, then making things better (for everybody).  "Good versus evil."

Some on the left sound like women "want" abortions, as if they in themselves are a "good" thing, instead of possibly the least bad of some bad options.  Having abortions available gives women the excuse for having gone home with the looser they went home with last week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2019 at 14:28
Thomas Sowell researched teen pregnancy rates and found that they increased after sex education became mandatory, teehee

Massive "sex education" programs were put into schools, claiming that this was urgently needed to reduce a "crisis" of teenage pregnancies and venereal diseases. But teenage pregnancies and venereal diseases had both been going down for years.

The rate of infection for gonorrhea, for example, declined every year from 1950 through 1959, and the rate of syphilis infection was, by 1960, less than half of what it had been in 1950. Both trends reversed and skyrocketed after "sex education" became pervasive.



Edited by Vanuatu - 03 Feb 2019 at 14:29
“The United Nations is the biggest joke of this century. If each one is trying to assert his own rights there, how can there be a United Nations?” UG Krishnamurti
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2019 at 15:17
I think of the wall as a bit of a boondoggle, but it is not unlike democrats to be in love with their own boondoggles.  Johnson's War on Poverty as part of his Great Society.  In the New Deal, at least the purpose was to give people who wanted to work, a chance to work.  The War on Poverty supported people who didn't want to work, creating a pauper class.  When it didn't work, LBJ's administration changed the goal post and declared victory.  The democrats are good at changing the stated goals and declaring victory, I am sure it was done with sex education too.  Can't criticize the alphabet soup of LGBTQ, might hurt their feelings, I am sure it hurt their feelings in the 80s too, when they resisted infectious disease control measures in the United States.  Other countries such as Cuba and Great Britain had a more sensical approach, and less of a death toll, I understand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2019 at 02:04
Quote sensical
???

But to asnwer your question, I wouldn't think so.

Having spent some time in the political wilderness which is Opposition, I would think that the Dems will attack Trump on every front, while at the same time pushing their own political policy agenda.

The ground is fertile for new seed to be sowed, IMHO, as many Americans are heartily disappointed in the man that they elected and his modus operandi.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2019 at 02:14
Quote The ground is fertile for new seed to be sowed, IMHO, as many Americans are heartily disappointed in the man that they elected and his modus operandi.
The American public is currently discouraged by the nonsense in Washington no doubt. Are you kidding? More people are disgusted with the democrats in Virginia right now by a HUGE margin, but you would not know that if you watch Democrat sponsored TV.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2019 at 06:19
People looking at the Democrats might decide that the evil they know is better than the evil you don't know.  Or that the bloodsuckers in office are sated and therefore don't need to gorge themselves on the body politic, while the bloodsuckers out of office are hungry to feed.
Or maybe, Baba O'Reilly

meet the new boss, same as the old boss,
just like yesterday, get on our knees and pray,
We won't get fooled again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2019 at 09:48
There is no one on the democrat side who could beat Trump if the election were held tomorrow. Trump wins in 2020 and now it doesn't feel like new boss/old boss situation. Trump is nothing like the old boss and some people are encouraged by the economic growth. Some of us are also glad that the border emergency will be dealt with finally. 

Democrat pundits have resorted to the lowest kind of speech and inclination, denying the sickening reality of third term abortion. 

Democrats make Trump seem genteel and are so unappealing with sour faces while we have seen positive progress on some major issues. 

They also understand that Mueller has nothing in his "investigation" to hang Trump on, Bill Barr's nomination was advanced and he will be the new AG. Mueller is toast and the way they talk about Barr, it's safe to say it's over for democrats -just some perfunctory kicking and screaming.


Edited by Vanuatu - 09 Feb 2019 at 04:35
“The United Nations is the biggest joke of this century. If each one is trying to assert his own rights there, how can there be a United Nations?” UG Krishnamurti
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 10:07
I don't know that Mueller has "nothing."  He is going after smaller fish so far, maybe he has nothing _as you say_, and maybe not.  But, I do think that thinking Trump is "innocent" is like thinking whatshername is a virgin.  Of course, "guilt" is not in his vocabulary.  He probably _could_ shoot someone on the street and not care.

But, if you are saying that Donald Trump is the lesser of evils, you may be right considering who the democrats are flirting with.  In 2016 it was Hillary's game to loose, and she snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.  The democrats (again) think they have it in the bag.

You know what a yellow dog democrat is?  If the democrats put up a yellow dog for mayor and the Republicans put up Jesus Christ, a yellow dog democrat would vote for the yellow dog, because he is a democrat.  The democrats seem to think they can put up anyone against Trump and "win."  I think that they will discover that a lot of people would prefer the yellow dog, to the reds they seem to be putting up for election.

I don't know if I would consider Trump an old boss or a new boss, but I would consider him like a Mafia boss who thinks he should get utter loyalty while throwing others under the boss.  But in one way at least he is not like a Mafia Don, in that he cannot stomach to pull the trigger, but counts on underlings to fire those that fall out of favor.  The image of him on the Apprentice firing people is largely a sham.  As far as the economy is concerned, I feel that anyone after Obama haranguing businessmen would have an improvement.  Obama 'cooked the books' to make it appear that the economy was doing better, I doubt Trump has done anything to fix those (distortive) economic statistics that Obama created, like people a long while out of work being dropped from the unemployment category. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 13:21
Mueller has a lot to hide about his own hand picked team of assassins already showing incredible bias before being selected for the Russia Probe. Many on his team were involved with the dossier, James Clapper admitted this about himself and Comey not to mention the Clinton campaign and some DOJ officials. 

Bill Barr, soon to be new AG, is a serious man. He is friends with Mueller but squeaky clean unlike Mueller. His deceptive "narrative indictments" convinced the likes of General Flynn that evidence had been collected and proved collusion by Trump campaign. Not being a lawyer you understand, Flynn like some people, just didn't understand the legal two-stepping. Under pressure to spare his son from threats made by Mueller he confesses to lying when his interrogators admit that he did not lie. False confessions are not uncommon and well documented especially in Mueller's FBI. Also very common for the FBI FISA court applications to leave out essential details such as requesting subpoenas but declining to say that the targets were already paid FBI informants. Paul Manafort's charges were not related to Trump's campaign. See a full list at Vox 

It’s a sprawling set of allegations, encompassing both election interference charges against overseas Russians, and various other crimes by American Trump advisers.

However, Mueller hasn’t yet alleged any crimes directly connecting the two — that is, alleging that Trump advisers conspired with Russian officials to impact the election. He is continuing to investigate that.

Other reported focuses of Mueller’s investigation — such as potential obstruction of justiceby the Trump administration — have also not resulted in any indictments yet.



Edited by Vanuatu - 11 Feb 2019 at 13:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 13:54
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I don't know that Mueller has "nothing."  He is going after smaller fish so far, maybe he has nothing _as you say_, and maybe not.  But, I do think that thinking Trump is "innocent" is like thinking whatshername is a virgin.  Of course, "guilt" is not in his vocabulary.  He probably _could_ shoot someone on the street and not care.
"But, I do think that thinking Trump is "innocent" Really?
Right bc all I've said is how INNOCENT Trump is, pppft
That comment is grasping and beneath you. 

YOU ARE NOT INNOCENT! NOR AM I! NOR IS OUR FRIEND IN AU!
Why would Trump be innocent?
False charges against a son of bitch, are STILL FALSE ! 
And when it's the DNC, DOJ, CIA and FBI creating a false narrative, that bothers me a lot, glad you can ignore it in favor of hating Trump for fashion's sake
It's like Jordan Peterson asked- when the hell do you say this is the limit and I can't move any further away from what I know to be right?


Edited by Vanuatu - 11 Feb 2019 at 13:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 17:47
Quote NOR IS OUR FRIEND IN AU!

I hope you're not talking about me!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 22:21
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote NOR IS OUR FRIEND IN AU!

I hope you're not talking about me!!!
I'm not talking about Olivia Newton John!!!

When were you innocent? 
Not Guilty is more like it.


Edited by Vanuatu - 11 Feb 2019 at 22:22
“The United Nations is the biggest joke of this century. If each one is trying to assert his own rights there, how can there be a United Nations?” UG Krishnamurti
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 23:55
Quote I'm not talking about Olivia Newton John!!!

Hugh Jackman?
Eric Bana?
Ah, Paul Hogan, right?

Quote When were you innocent? 
Not Guilty is more like it.

That would depend of what crime or offence that you intend to level at me.

Dislike Donald Trump-fair cop guv, you've got me.

Robbing banks-innocent and not guilty.

If you're going to level accusations against me, make them clear, don't muck about girl, speak up.Thumbs Down

Quote "But, I do think that thinking Trump is "innocent" Really?
Right bc all I've said is how INNOCENT Trump is, pppft

And you're wrong again, face up to it.

Quote Why would Trump be innocent?
He's not. CNN said so.Wink

Quote False charges against a son of bitch, are STILL FALSE !
 

Many a son-of -bitch has been convicted because he's a son-of-a-bitch and needs to convicted for the public good.

Quote And when it's the DNC, DOJ, CIA and FBI creating a false narrative, that bothers me a lot, glad you can ignore it in favor of hating Trump for fashion's sake
It's like Jordan Peterson asked- when the hell do you say this is the limit and I can't move any further away from what I know to be right?

And now you turn on some of the worlds leading Intelligence and Law Enforcement agencies-just like Trump. When will you ever learn?

Hating Trump gives purpose to my day and makes me feel good. Why should I stop?



Edited by toyomotor - 12 Feb 2019 at 00:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 01:09
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote I'm not talking about Olivia Newton John!!!

Hugh Jackman?
Eric Bana?
Ah, Paul Hogan, right?

Quote When were you innocent? 
Not Guilty is more like it.

That would depend of what crime or offence that you intend to level at me.

Dislike Donald Trump-fair cop guv, you've got me.

Robbing banks-innocent and not guilty.

If you're going to level accusations against me, make them clear, don't muck about girl, speak up.Thumbs Down

Quote "But, I do think that thinking Trump is "innocent" Really?
Right bc all I've said is how INNOCENT Trump is, pppft

And you're wrong again, face up to it.

Quote Why would Trump be innocent?
He's not. CNN said so.Wink

Quote False charges against a son of bitch, are STILL FALSE !
 

Many a son-of -bitch has been convicted because he's a son-of-a-bitch and needs to convicted for the public good.

Quote And when it's the DNC, DOJ, CIA and FBI creating a false narrative, that bothers me a lot, glad you can ignore it in favor of hating Trump for fashion's sake
It's like Jordan Peterson asked- when the hell do you say this is the limit and I can't move any further away from what I know to be right?

And now you turn on some of the worlds leading Intelligence and Law Enforcement agencies-just like Trump. When will you ever learn?

Hating Trump gives purpose to my day and makes me feel good. Why should I stop?

Hate him all you want it's the lying to yourself that should bother you.

You are not innocent in any sense of the word.That's the reason defendants are found NOT GUILTY instead of INNOCENT.

You would convict on false charges bc you hate Trump? 
OK glad I know where you stand and wonder if you didn't employ the "bc I don't like you" rational when you were on the job. 

I didn't accuse you of a crime I said you are not innocent. And have not been since you pushed off mother's teat.

I never said Trump was INNOCENT! I said the liberal media, ANTIFA, democrats and leftists were behaving much worse than racist Trump, who by the way doesn't appear in black face or in a KKK costume like the Dixiecrat posers in Virginia. 

Lastly save the "girl" for your children, you step all over my posts for "name calling."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 10:23
LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2019 at 09:49
Are the charges against Manafort false?  Flynn?  Cohen?  Stone?  Papadopoulos?  Are they innocents?martyrs? or did they get caught fair and square?

Did Cohen pay off two bimbos?  Why shouldn't that be considered a campaign contribution?  Did the editor of National Enquirer work to suppress the news of one of those bimbo eruptions?  Is that just an act of friendship or is that a campaign contribution?  I believe the sentencing agreement looked upon it as an example of the later.  Did he try to blackmail Bezos, or was he just trying to get the news 'accurately portrayed' regarding the supposed uninvolvement of the Saudis.  Whatever it was, was it violation of his plea agreement?  Was Stone courting wikileaks and what was his role in getting them to release the Clinton emails?

When I say Trump is not innocent, I think in terms of Scottish (?) law, where there are 3 possible verdicts, guilty, innocent, and not guilty.  Not guilty means that the person under trial was not guilty of that particular charge, but they could be brought up on another charge and tried on the basically the same or a similar matter.  Trump is not guilty at best, but Mueller has not brought him up on charges, presumably not yet.  We don't know what he has, and neither does Trump, although not knowing has never kept Trump from acting.  Mueller is not vocal in the press, nor disparaging President Trump, he is acting in a legal capacity not a media capacity.  Trump blasts Mueller and Mueller takes it.  The media blasts Trump, and Trump blasts back.  Mueller does not leak to the media.  I think you can fault the media (and the media can fault Trump, but they are not exactly an impartial actor).  But, as far as public appearance is concerned, Mueller really doesn't say anything.

I am sure you will find some trivial detail wrong with what I say, and dismiss the whole.  I believe that the jury has a right to be activist if they find an extreme necessity for it.  Lawyers and judges hate it, but if they want to rule someone obviously guilty as innocent, or obviously innocent guilty (and points in between), they can.  That includes where what happened is murky, and the jury chooses to interpret in a definite manner.  Now it may be thrown out on appeal, but that is another story.  So, yes if you are a rotten excuse for a human being, that counts for something.  But, I am talking about extreme hypothetical cases.  In a way, if the media convicts him in the court of public opinion, then how do you get a jury pool?  Of course, cross that bridge if or when we get to it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2019 at 10:17
When the media launches a campaign against an individual or a corporation, there often comes a time when getting a completely impartial decision on guilt or innocence is virtually impossible. Under these circumstances, it's been argued in the past that as a fair trial cannot be held, proceedings should be halted.

Take, for example, the case of El Chapo. The reporting on his activities has been so extensive and, allegedly impartial, that he was always going to be found guilty. And I'm not suggesting that he's innocent.

In the case of Donald Trump, he's created so much adverse media publicity that he possibly could never get a fair trial either.

As for the Democrats, I wouldn't have thought that they'll self destruct, not for a while anyway, but should they remain in power, especial with a Dem president after 2020, the road will be rough for a while.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2019 at 11:19
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Are the charges against Manafort false?  Flynn?  Cohen?  Stone?  Papadopoulos?  Are they innocents?martyrs? or did they get caught fair and square?
Nope, US won't accuse on no evidence. The "collusion" was a story there was no evidence for investigating Cohen or Manafort for collusion. Don't worry though investigating Hillary's deal giving Russians uranium might replace the national pastime.
Quote
Mueller does not leak to the media. 
No reason to believe that, he recently corrected a leak bc of AG Barr. 

Quote
I am sure you will find some trivial detail wrong with what I say, and dismiss the whole.  I believe that the jury has a right to be activist if they find an extreme necessity for it.

what jury? This was a prosecutor's allegations, there was no jury. 
 
Quote Lawyers and judges hate it, but if they want to rule someone obviously guilty as innocent, or obviously innocent guilty (and points in between), they can.  That includes where what happened is murky, and the jury chooses to interpret in a definite manner.  Now it may be thrown out on appeal, but that is another story.  So, yes if you are a rotten excuse for a human being, that counts for something.  But, I am talking about extreme hypothetical cases.  In a way, if the media convicts him in the court of public opinion, then how do you get a jury pool?  Of course, cross that bridge if or when we get to it. 
What's going to be thrown out on appeal? What the hell are you referring to?


Edited by Vanuatu - 13 Feb 2019 at 11:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2019 at 01:28
The fact that someone may have gotten away with something, doesn't have anything to do with whether the next schmuck gets away with something.  So what?  Because the Clintons were not prosecuted or persecuted, Manafort, Flynt, Cohen smell like roses?  Clintons are corrupt, and they have fallen out of favor, shown especially by her loosing the national election, and she _lost_ it by not playing the electoral college, and getting arrogant.

 I am talking about an activist jury, and the theory that a jury can do what it wants.  Are you saying that Manafort, Flynt and Cohen do not have a right to a jury of their peers?  Just because they do a plea agreement, and settle out of court, does not mean that they have a right to a jury of their peers??  Are they allowed a defense attorney??  Isn't part of the purpose of the defense attorney to call bull on the prosecution if the prosecution warrants that (if it gets that far).

But, maybe you are right, Cohen might not be guilty of conspiracy with Russia, but I think that looking at payoffs of bimbos is a form of campaign violations.  But, maybe you only get upset with Clinton's bimbo eruptions, not Trump's.  When everything stinks to high heaven, it is little difficult to tell what smell comes from which steaming pile.

Mueller has been rather closed mouth in general concerning the press.  The "President" on the other hand feels rather free to lambast the Justice department and the Judiciary when the whim suits him, which it often does.  Donald Trump, a man that never lets ignorance hold him back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2019 at 03:36
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Are the charges against Manafort false?  Flynn?  Cohen?  Stone?  Papadopoulos?  Are they innocents?martyrs? or did they get caught fair and square?
Since the FBI knew all about Manafort before the election, I assume they raided his house and documents to prevent him from hiding/destroying any evidence. 

Yet a search warrant MUST indicate the flavor of the evidence that is to be preserved. A judge determines whether the warrant is legit. We don't know why the warrant was authorized. When Trump was elected the FBI showed him the dossier and said "we don't have anything to prove it, there is no open investigation on you." So if there were no counterintelligence documents recovered from Manafort's home than it was an illegal search and seizure.

Gen Flynn was harassed by the intelligence community in order to find information to use against Trump, bc they had NONE.
Ditto Cohen, FBI is subject to the law no matter how inconvenient it is for liberals.  

Papadpoulos did nothing illegal- see Hillary's dossier compiled by Russian ex KGB and Peter Steele her liberal cheerleader or Hill's Uranium 1 deal- that is counterintelligence fraud.


I have no idea what Roger Stone is being accused of, I guess he is an arms or drug dealer since they brought SWAT in to take him down as if he's El Chapo.


Quote Did Cohen pay off two bimbos?  Why shouldn't that be considered a campaign contribution?  Did the editor of National Enquirer work to suppress the news of one of those bimbo eruptions?  Is that just an act of friendship or is that a campaign contribution?  I believe the sentencing agreement looked upon it as an example of the later.  Did he try to blackmail Bezos, or was he just trying to get the news 'accurately portrayed' regarding the supposed uninvolvement of the Saudis.  Whatever it was, was it violation of his plea agreement?  Was Stone courting wikileaks and what was his role in getting them to release the Clinton emails?
Horrifying! Won't someone PLEASE think of the children! 
When you have a few more straw men come back I'm building a house of sticks.

Quote When I say Trump is not innocent, I think in terms of Scottish (?) law, where there are 3 possible verdicts, guilty, innocent, and not guilty.  Not guilty means that the person under trial was not guilty of that particular charge, but they could be brought up on another charge and tried on the basically the same or a similar matter.  Trump is not guilty at best, but Mueller has not brought him up on charges, presumably not yet.  We don't know what he has, and neither does Trump, although not knowing has never kept Trump from acting.
Do you buy your colored glasses from the same manufacturer as toyomotor? Wink

Quote Mueller is not vocal in the press, nor disparaging President Trump, he is acting in a legal capacity not a media capacity.  Trump blasts Mueller and Mueller takes it.  The media blasts Trump, and Trump blasts back.  Mueller does not leak to the media.  I think you can fault the media (and the media can fault Trump, but they are not exactly an impartial actor).  But, as far as public appearance is concerned, Mueller really doesn't say anything.
Mueller doesn't say that doesn't mean he won't direct others to leak, leak and leak some more. Everyone of his subordinates has contradicted their direct superiors. 
Mueller actually did speak up and deny media poop after Barr was clear to be the next AG.

Quote I am sure you will find some trivial detail wrong with what I say, and dismiss the whole.
You are trafficking in trivialities and "What if's?" Please highlight your most devastating FACT.

Quote I believe that the jury has a right to be activist if they find an extreme necessity for it.
Absolutely sickening
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2019 at 10:30
Quote Do you buy your colored glasses from the same manufacturer as toyomotor? Wink

That's a bit unfair!

I've formed opinions on Trump after reading many different American on-line newspapers and watching him on TV news broadcasts - the man has been proven to be an unmitigated liar and a buffoon.

He's single handedly created a situation where the western world can no longer rely on common sense and stability coming from the White House, nor can others with whom the USA must deal with in relation to trade, finances, military and climate control.

I don't wear rose coloured glasses, I just wish Trump would wake up and smell the grass.

If I alone had these views, I'd be concerned, but I don't and I'm not. Many far more informed and more intelligent than me have the same views.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2019 at 10:48
I am a little confused by your triple negative, "Mueller doesn't say that doesn't mean he won't direct others to leak, leak and leak some more."

In a trial, I believe the jury is supreme in a court case.  I had a friend that was in a criminal trial and my dad and I went to the trial in support.  At the beginning of the trial, when they were selecting the jury, the prosecution said, 'if you thought that a law was silly, but the person was guilty of the law, would you convict? for example if it was illegal to eat ice cream on the sidewalk and the person was guilty, would you convict?'  I would have said, 'if the law said someone had to wear a star, and then wouldn't wear a star, would you convict?'
So, yes the jury has a right to acquit the guilty (and hence also convict the "innocent"), now the jury also has responsibilities, and the responsibilities are more important than their 'rights.'  But their responsibilities do not necessarily include making the judge's, the prosecutor's and the defense's day go smoothly.
btw
The friend was found guilty for a lesser offense, the jury split the difference.  But, the judge threw the book at him, rightfully so, because my friend was a very bad liar and the judge surely knew when the defendant was asked if he had ever done anything similar, and the defendant lied.  If he had properly talked to his own lawyer, his own lawyer would not have asked that precise question.  Of course, the fact that he lied, badly, does imply that generally he is the honest sort.  Which he was.  But, he got 3 months in jail, rather than a couple of weeks home detention.

I do hope that Mueller's report is publicly released, if not though, I am not sure I am quite comfortable with it and Mueller being subpoenaed.  Of course, Donald Trump goes to extremes and likes to fight (whether it is necessary or not), and so maybe Mueller being subpoenaed is what it takes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2019 at 13:09
btw, my lens are not colored, they are photo-sensitive.

Oh, I also believe that voters have a right to write in candidates, although I wonder what would actually happen if Mickey Mouse got elected.  Poll staffers hate write in candidates, because they have to count them by hand.  Same thing, jury activism is frowned upon by the establishment, but is well within the purview of the juror (or elector as the case may be.

But, surely Vanuatu, you don't think Donald Trump would have been elected if a large portion of the American people weren't giving the establishment a big F U?  Or maybe you are also one of those types that believes Trump would have gotten the popular vote if Hillary hadn't "cheated."

Jordan Peterson has some interesting observations about Trump promoting the wall.  He points out that conservatives are into borders, personal, political, moral.  Whereas liberals are more into openness, more what I would call 'loose-goosy' on the moral boundaries, political boundaries etc.  So what Trump says about a wall strikes a real cord with the conservatives.  The liberals (and more precisely, the radicals) go apesh*t about this and can't stand it, disparaging anyone who doesn't see it their way.

Personally, I think the conservatives are more tolerant, believing in borders they believe that someone else can legitimately have an opinion that is different than theirs.  The liberals/radicals being so open can't accept that there might be another opinion, as valid or even more valid than their own.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2019 at 13:32
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I am a little confused by your triple negative, "Mueller doesn't say that doesn't mean he won't direct others to leak, leak and leak some more."
Mueller doesn't say -to follow your "Mueller isn't talking" but do give yourself big points for noticing missing comma. 

Quote In a trial, I believe the jury is supreme in a court case.  I had a friend that was in a criminal trial and my dad and I went to the trial in support.  At the beginning of the trial, when they were selecting the jury, the prosecution said, 'if you thought that a law was silly, but the person was guilty of the law, would you convict? for example if it was illegal to eat ice cream on the sidewalk and the person was guilty, would you convict?'  I would have said, 'if the law said someone had to wear a star, and then wouldn't wear a star, would you convict?'
So, yes the jury has a right to acquit the guilty (and hence also convict the "innocent"), now the jury also has responsibilities, and the responsibilities are more important than their 'rights.'  But their responsibilities do not necessarily include making the judge's, the prosecutor's and the defense's day go smoothly.
btw
The friend was found guilty for a lesser offense, the jury split the difference.  But, the judge threw the book at him, rightfully so, because my friend was a very bad liar and the judge surely knew when the defendant was asked if he had ever done anything similar, and the defendant lied.  If he had properly talked to his own lawyer, his own lawyer would not have asked that precise question.  Of course, the fact that he lied, badly, does imply that generally he is the honest sort.  Which he was.  But, he got 3 months in jail, rather than a couple of weeks home detention.
 
I love a judge with ESP it's totally constitutional. A jury isn't relevant until a law official has done their work correctly. The evidence found after the election would never have seen daylight if Hillaroid had won as was expected. Mueller's warrant for Manafort may never see daylight but things have a way of leeeeeking. 




Edited by Vanuatu - 26 Feb 2019 at 13:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2019 at 13:42
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

btw, my lens are not colored, they are photo-sensitive.


But, surely Vanuatu, you don't think Donald Trump would have been elected if a large portion of the American people weren't giving the establishment a big F U?  Or maybe you are also one of those types that believes Trump would have gotten the popular vote if Hillary hadn't "cheated."
Of course the country was giving an extremely vulgar F U to the establishment, it was overdue and it's been my view since 2016.

Quote Jordan Peterson has some interesting observations about Trump promoting the wall.  He points out that conservatives are into borders, personal, political, moral.  Whereas liberals are more into openness, more what I would call 'loose-goosy' on the moral boundaries, political boundaries etc.  So what Trump says about a wall strikes a real cord with the conservatives.  The liberals (and more precisely, the radicals) go apesh*t about this and can't stand it, disparaging anyone who doesn't see it their way.
loosy goosy liberals live behind walls and they don't want the drug trade to dry up or the supply of children for Kevin Spacey and his ilk. 

Quote Personally, I think the conservatives are more tolerant, believing in borders they believe that someone else can legitimately have an opinion that is different than theirs.  The liberals/radicals being so open can't accept that there might be another opinion, as valid or even more valid than their own.
Of course conservatives are more tolerant, they just want some distance from whatever they choose to avoid, like horrible evil doers and actors. 
Loonie Leftists are emotionally and intellectually impaired, lacking perspective not potential.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2019 at 13:50
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote Do you buy your colored glasses from the same manufacturer as toyomotor? Wink

That's a bit unfair!

I've formed opinions on Trump after reading many different American on-line newspapers and watching him on TV news broadcasts - the man has been proven to be an unmitigated liar and a buffoon.

He's single handedly created a situation where the western world can no longer rely on common sense and stability coming from the White House, nor can others with whom the USA must deal with in relation to trade, finances, military and climate control.

I don't wear rose coloured glasses, I just wish Trump would wake up and smell the grass.

If I alone had these views, I'd be concerned, but I don't and I'm not. Many far more informed and more intelligent than me have the same views.
I'd list Trump's economic progress and tell you about the great job numbers, justice reform, highest number of minorities employed ever, lowest unemployment since the 1950's but it's wasted on you. That's bc of the glasses.
Smart people are susceptible to emotional decisions that are misguided and stubborn and rooted in ego and many of those people are far more informed and intelligent than you. Finally we agree!LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2019 at 10:33
Considering how hostile President Obama was to the business community, I think that Scooby Do would have improved the economy if he had been elected.  Now President Trump probably did better than Scooby Do would.  But so would have your favorite person, Hillary Clinton.
Considering how President Obama cooked the statics for unemployment, I am not sure that when you say lowest unemployment since the 1950s, that that is a meaningful statistic under President Trump.  Obama did not count people who had been unemployed a long time, and had basically stopped looking, he did not count them as unemployed, thus cooking the statistics that had been developed by Herbert Hoover.

So, whose statistics are you and Trump using, Herbert Hoover's or President Obama's?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 10:04
Part of the significance of the democrats having their convention in Millwaukie is that Wisconsin has historically had a strong streak of socialism, they had a governor or two that was a socialist.  Also, the democrats have to do something about the loss of the mid-West in the last election.
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