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Women!!!!!

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Robert Baird View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 Mar 2016 at 16:07
The future for women in the West has improved in many respects over the time since the Cathars were burned at the stake. I attribute some of these changes to what the Cathars and their Troubadours had done. Perhaps someone will convince me there is something other than a dark side to Christian history after Rome got involved - which is very early, if your definition has anything to do with some man myth called Jesus rather than what Iesa means. Numerous are the dangers a woman faced in the pursuit of anything resembling a life. The whole world still trembles. Some people may not know these things so here's some of Helen Ellerbe's book.

"From: The Dark Side of Christian History

The Reformation did not convert the people of Europe to orthodox Christianity through preaching and catechisms alone. It was the 300 year period of witch-hunting from the fifteenth to the eighteenth century, what R.H. Robbins called "the shocking nightmare, the foulest crime and deepest shame of western civilization." The Church created the elaborate concept of devil worship and then, used the persecution of it to wipe out dissent, subordinate the individual to authoritarian control, and openly denigrate women.

The witch hunts were an eruption of orthodox Christianity's vilification of women, "the weaker vessel," in St. Peter's words. The second century St. Clement of Alexandria wrote: "Every woman should be filled with shame by the thought that she is a woman." The Church father Tertullian explained why women deserve their status as despised and inferior human beings:

"And do you not know that you are an Eve? The sentence of God on this sex of yours lives in this age: the guilt must of necessity live too. You are the devil's gateway: you are the unsealer of that tree: you are the first deserter of the divine law: you are she who persuaded him whom the devil was not valiant enough to attack. You destroyed so easily God's image, man. On account of your desert that is, death even the Son of God had to die."

Others expressed the view more bluntly. The sixth century Christian philosopher, Boethius, wrote in The Consolation of Philosophy, "Woman is a temple built upon a sewer." Bishops at the sixth century Council of Macon voted as to whether or not women had souls. In the tenth century Odo of Cluny declared, "To embrace a woman is to embrace a sack of manure..." The thirteenth century St. Thomas Aquinas suggested that God had made a mistake in creating woman: "nothing [deficient] or defective should have been produced in the first establishment of things; so woman ought not to have been produced then." And Lutherans at Wittenberg debated whether women were really human beings at all. Orthodox Christians held women responsible for all sin. As the Bible's Apocrypha states, "Of woman came the beginning of sin And thanks to her, we all must die."

Women are often understood to be impediments to spirituality in a context where God reigns strictly from heaven and demands a renunciation of physical pleasure. As I Corinthians 7:1 states, "It is a good thing for a man to have nothing to do with a woman." The Inquisitors who wrote the Malleus Maleficarum, "The Hammer of the Witches," explained that women are more likely to become witches:

'Because the female sex is more concerned with things of the flesh than men;' because being formed from a man's rib, they are only 'imperfect animals' and 'crooked' whereas man belongs to a privileged sex from whose midst Christ emerged.

Christians found fault with women on all sorts of counts. An historian notes that thirteenth century preachers

...denounced women on the one hand for... the lascivious and carnal provocation of their garments, and on the other hand for being over- industrious, too occupied with children and housekeeping, too earthbound to give due thought to divine things."


I am well aware that many people hid inside the bowels of the Church and continued to try to mimic Yeshua and his family. I can defend the origins of many such groups including the Jesuits - but it is more difficult to defend them as they do not promote ecumenicism and equality as well as truth in history.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 03:57
Just a suggestion, it may have been more appropriate to name the topic "witchburnings" rather than "Women!!!". This is not an order nor a demand, just a helpful recommendation from one member to another.

Also, I disagree with just about everything you have posted in this thread entirely.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert Baird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 04:11
Dear C

Of course you disagree with the quoted church fathers - they are the reason I am disgusted and used sarcasm in the title.

Now make a cogent reasoned response!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 04:25
Well Robert, I found it necessary to address the title of your post because it smacks of the sort of feminist agit prop we are all so used to. It comes across as just another misandrist puff piece which aims to prove to society how men are all total bastards and women are all poor, helpless victims.

On to the argument itself. Why do you date the improvement in the living conditions of women to the burning of the Cathars? This is a situation whose fortunes ebb and flow like the fortunes of their counterparts who possess external genitals. I don't see your logic here.

If Cathars caused the improvement in the lot of women, how could their burning at the stake be the point from which you date your epoch for "the improvement in the future of women"?

"Numerous are the dangers in the pursuit of anything a woman considers a life"? Are you off your rocker, old man? Typical life expectancy from the Late Roman period to the end of the middle ages was about 32. Child mortality was about 50%. The vast majority of the population scraped out a meager existence in subsistence agriculture. And men undertook most of the dangerous tasks and work that destroyed the human body and mind. Men stood up and worked, fought and protected and provided for their women and children with a courage that would put all modern people to shame.

I'll read excerpts from your book when you have something measured to say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 06:15
It is hard to read the red letters.  Is this red as in the scarlet letter?  or is it like the red letter bibles?

It seems to me in the Greek poleis at least, men had to worry about being run through with a sword (and C XI is right, do the dirty jobs), and women have to worry about childbirth.  It is not equal, but modern equality seems to be too much like people regardless of sex ('gender') are interchangable parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert Baird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 06:51
Originally posted by Constantine XI Constantine XI wrote:

Well Robert, I found it necessary to address the title of your post because it smacks of the sort of feminist agit prop we are all so used to. It comes across as just another misandrist puff piece which aims to prove to society how men are all total bastards and women are all poor, helpless victims.

On to the argument itself. Why do you date the improvement in the living conditions of women to the burning of the Cathars? This is a situation whose fortunes ebb and flow like the fortunes of their counterparts who possess external genitals. I don't see your logic here.

If Cathars caused the improvement in the lot of women, how could their burning at the stake be the point from which you date your epoch for "the improvement in the future of women"?

"Numerous are the dangers in the pursuit of anything a woman considers a life"? Are you off your rocker, old man? Typical life expectancy from the Late Roman period to the end of the middle ages was about 32. Child mortality was about 50%. The vast majority of the population scraped out a meager existence in subsistence agriculture. And men undertook most of the dangerous tasks and work that destroyed the human body and mind. Men stood up and worked, fought and protected and provided for their women and children with a courage that would put all modern people to shame.

I'll read excerpts from your book when you have something measured to say.

Starting at the bottom - WHAT book? I have many on the Cathars.

Next up - the dangers relate to things such as the Church Fathers did including being burned at the stake and lowered into rivers tied in chairs etc.. Other dangers include being chattel and treated as such which includes no education, and being used in monastic orgies and worse.

Men got paid through monogamy and rape and pillage - but that takes more time and clearly you are deranged and cannot read anyway.

Next up: The burning at the stake was not from whence the Court d'Amour began raising women to a state of equality and helping men learn how to make love as more than animals. It was part of the whole era including the Troubadours of more northern origins. You could ask politely for more proof but that would be decent and you are proving you are not that.

Finally it appears you are indeed in need of some socialization about equality. Feminism is a good thing in a world where arranged marriages, honor killings and male superiority in the face of the obvious emotional IQ of apes is a problem. The figures on Family Violence and the attendant Cycle of Violence in America caused the Surgeon-General to call it a pandemic. I could start a thread on that but at this point you will have to pay me to make any more contributions freely.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert Baird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 06:53
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

It is hard to read the red letters.  Is this red as in the scarlet letter?  or is it like the red letter bibles?

It seems to me in the Greek poleis at least, men had to worry about being run through with a sword (and C XI is right, do the dirty jobs), and women have to worry about childbirth.  It is not equal, but modern equality seems to be too much like people regardless of sex ('gender') are interchangable parts.

The red signifies a rage at the stupidity of men and Empire you support. It is the words of a real scholar rather than you weak and self involved talk about coins and no authority or reference of good scholars to back you up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 09:15
Originally posted by Constantine XI Constantine XI wrote:

Well Robert, I found it necessary to address the title of your post because it smacks of the sort of feminist agit prop we are all so used to. It comes across as just another misandrist puff piece which aims to prove to society how men are all total bastards and women are all poor, helpless victims.

On to the argument itself. Why do you date the improvement in the living conditions of women to the burning of the Cathars? This is a situation whose fortunes ebb and flow like the fortunes of their counterparts who possess external genitals. I don't see your logic here.

If Cathars caused the improvement in the lot of women, how could their burning at the stake be the point from which you date your epoch for "the improvement in the future of women"?

"Numerous are the dangers in the pursuit of anything a woman considers a life"? Are you off your rocker, old man? Typical life expectancy from the Late Roman period to the end of the middle ages was about 32. Child mortality was about 50%. The vast majority of the population scraped out a meager existence in subsistence agriculture. And men undertook most of the dangerous tasks and work that destroyed the human body and mind. Men stood up and worked, fought and protected and provided for their women and children with a courage that would put all modern people to shame.

I'll read excerpts from your book when you have something measured to say.

Originally posted by Robert Baird Robert Baird wrote:

Starting at the bottom - WHAT book? I have many on the Cathars.
 

The Hellen Ellerbe book you quoted in your first post. Obviously.

Originally posted by Robert Baird Robert Baird wrote:

Next up - the dangers relate to things such as the Church Fathers did including being burned at the stake and lowered into rivers tied in chairs etc.. Other dangers include being chattel and treated as such which includes no education, and being used in monastic orgies and worse.

Men were also lowered into rivers and burned at the stake. Ever read The Crucible?

Originally posted by Robert Baird Robert Baird wrote:

Men got paid through monogamy and rape and pillage - but that takes more time and clearly you are deranged and cannot read anyway.

Which men? Paid by whom? For doing what? This is a silly claim. The vast majority of men in this period practiced subsistence agriculture in partnership with a wife in a mutually supportive relationship centred around providing for their children. They didn't get "paid".

Much smaller numbers of men and women did get "paid" as artisan specialists or as clergy.

Even smaller numbers nearly exclusively made up of men served as military vassals of the feudal superiors or simply took up arms to defend their local communities.

Originally posted by Robert Baird Robert Baird wrote:

Next up: The burning at the stake was not from whence the Court d'Amour began raising women to a state of equality and helping men learn how to make love as more than animals. It was part of the whole era including the Troubadours of more northern origins. You could ask politely for more proof but that would be decent and you are proving you are not that.

You're describing all men of the medieval period as being nothing more than animals. You're the one being thoroughly lacking in decency.

Originally posted by Robert Baird Robert Baird wrote:

Finally it appears you are indeed in need of some socialization about equality. Feminism is a good thing in a world where arranged marriages, honor killings and male superiority in the face of the obvious emotional IQ of apes is a problem. The figures on Family Violence and the attendant Cycle of Violence in America caused the Surgeon-General to call it a pandemic. I could start a thread on that but at this point you will have to pay me to make any more contributions freely.

Feminism is an evil Cultural Marxist cult that does its utmost to infantilise women and destroy the family. The "statistics" churned out by gender studies faux intellectuals are a disgrace to academia, being made up of little other than the most deliberate lies.

I'd be more inclined to pay you not to spout more of this silliness.


Edited by Constantine XI - 29 Mar 2016 at 09:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 09:22
Sometimes I have to remind myself what is/was so great about being a member of a forum like this, and I can say for myself that it has been a 12 years long learning experience.
Everyone has contributed with his/her opinions and perspective on life from the corner of the earth he calls home - we all learn from that - great.

However - some later posts appears to have a slighty different aim which brought an old message from an old philosopher to mind.

If we wish to succeed
in helping someone to reach a particular goal
we must first find out where he is now
and start from there.

If we cannot do this,
we merely delude ourselves
into believing that we can help others.

Before we can help someone,
we must know more than he does,
but most of all,
we must understand what he understands.
If we cannot do that, our knowing more will not help.

If we nonetheless wish to show how much we know,
it is only because we are vain and arrogant,
and our true goal is to be admired,
not to help others.

All genuine helpfulness
starts with humility before those we wish to help,
so we must understand
that helping
is not a wish to dominate
but a wish to serve.

If we cannot do this,
neither can we help anyone.

"Fragments of a plain message"
Søren Kierkegaard 1859  

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   If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.    (Albert Einstein)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert Baird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 13:37
Dear C

You are nearly illiterate and do not have a clue about Cultural Marxism (which came forth alongside Critical Theory and THINKING).

If you go to W-M and read the thread this post comes from and still have your Nazi biased viewpoint about genders I would be surprised. And yes, Northman I know where this mindset oozes out from.

From a post by ISal in Hi ISal we have a great deal of embedded information on the third page of that long thread.

Hello Mr. Baird,

Reviewing a course, Human Origins by Don Johanson, a professor (found Lucy) of paleoanthropology. According to Johanson, there is a difference between language and communication.

Communication is situational, abstract. Of interest is the idea, we as humans within our development of language/communication have both a biological and cultural evolution - Dobzhansky.

Found an interesting statement of Dobzhansky from “Ethics and Values in Biological and Cultural Evolution”,

Natural selection can favor egotism, hedonism, cowardice instead of bravery, cheating and exploitation, while group ethics in virtually all societies tend to counteract or forbid such ‘natural’ behavior, and to glorify their opposites: kindness, generosity, and even self-sacrifice for the good of others of one’s tribe or nation and finally of mankind.
So, looking further Dobzhansky and find a little paper submitted to academia, Morality and evolution: what did the Synthetic Theory architects said about it? - Juan Manuel Rodríguez Caso and Rosaura Ruiz Gutiérrez

One of Dobzhansky’s main intelectual influence in regard to human evolution was the work of French palaeontologist and Jesuit priest Pierre Teilhard de Chardin (1881-1955)
Of course the name Pierre Teilhard de Chardin jumps out from one of our previous discussions on another board and you cite him on many threads here at WM, so I pull up some of these posts which leads to Ptolemy's Harmonics All the posts in this thread are a fascinating, worthwhile read - even touches upon Platonic solids and from the title - you guessed it music!!!

And going to backtrack here for a moment to state I did not understand what you meant by giving vs taking until you clarified in another post, Nichomachean Ethics afterwards connecting it to RIGHT THOUGHT - RIGHT ACTION.

The basic idea is this - if you owe someone anything at the point of your death - you are not free to move into higher realms of harmonized soulful connections in the Harmonic Convergent Pyramid of all knowledge, energy and oneness (G-d, Nirvana etc.). Thus I do not 'take' as well as I 'give' and I appear (correctly) to be a martyr or even masochist.
And in response to a inquiry asked another poster, to explain the Platonic solids with a hint - Ashmolean Museum. Leads to the Neolithic Carved Sandstone Balls. Excellent article for the layman (me) describing this by a Nobel Prize Winner, physic, Frank Wilczek, Beautiful Losers: Plato’s Geometry of Elements

One must also admire the boldness of genius in seeing an apparent defect in the theory—five solids for four elements—as an opportunity for crowning creation, either with the Universe as a whole (Plato) or with space itself (Aristotle).
So even though the Wilczek goes against this theory of Plato's insight- it is always important to look at both sides of the picture, per se and the comments addressing this are well worth the read, too. One can benefit also from reading, TIMAEUS, by Plato along with your thread mentioned above - Ptolemy's Harmonics. I seriously doubt I can bring anything new to this forum that has not been covered already, but still exciting to research a subject and find it reference here for further details.

Lost track of where this quote originated, may have been one of your insertions here on WM, and think it is important to include

Aristotle's question about the kinds of shapes that fill space, has proven to be crucial to the study of crystals where atoms are locked into repeating geometric patterns in 3-dimensional space. Metaphysically, the Platonic Solids show how all things come from one source and are intimately and permanently woven together.
Now, I do not have the full answer in detail and of course I know you know already but think it all leads back to all your threads on the grid.
BTW - Learned about this in a couple Geography classes (last year or year before - Physical Geo & Social Geo).
Actually had to do a short one page paper on the Grid - nowadays Google Earth is an example.
And your sharing of information leads to Critical Path - By R. Buckminster Fuller - link not to entire book, but enough to get started.

Way too much here - would fill up pages with quotes of interest that confirm so much of what you already talk about here (and surely cover in your books connecting with your building blocks)!!! Thus no need to go further in an explanation. Just gonna say this goes way beyond the time-frame of Plato - IMHO he just passed on this info, like Bucky, you, and so many others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 13:48
Nope Robert, I'm not even going to read through the copy/paste job you've just done. I know perfectly well where Cultural Marxism comes from. In fact, I explained as much in another thread just before your last post.

Clearly though you are here to troll, resorting to the posting of irrelevant obscurantia in your bid to be taken seriously in pushing your commie propaganda. I spend enough of my time exposing and debunking the influence of Cultural Marxism among people of my own age group. And no one seems to be taking your muddled contentions as persuasive anyway. So I'll leave you to it. Knock yourself out Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert Baird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 14:06
Originally posted by Constantine XI Constantine XI wrote:

Nope Robert, I'm not even going to read through the copy/paste job you've just done. I know perfectly well where Cultural Marxism comes from. In fact, I explained as much in another thread just before your last post.

Clearly though you are here to troll, resorting to the posting of irrelevant obscurantia in your bid to be taken seriously in pushing your commie propaganda. I spend enough of my time exposing and debunking the influence of Cultural Marxism among people of my own age group. And no one seems to be taking your muddled contentions as persuasive anyway. So I'll leave you to it. Knock yourself out Big smile

Yes, if I were you I would not try to learn - it could cause serious psychological adjustments which would make your head need to get out from the dark place it exists in - your sphincter might hurt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2016 at 02:26
Constantine/Northman:

Robert Baird has bombarded just about every topic on the forum with his own interpretations of the OP, and in doing so has deliberately, I suggest, insulted quite a few of our members.

The way his posts are constructed does not encourage healthy debate, or even room for another opinion.

I, for one, intend to ignore his ramblings and look forward to his leaving this forum-permanently!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2016 at 03:33
toyomotor, Northman took the initiative to ban him. While I personally don't have a problem with kook theories or someone simply being factually incorrect, I do agree that Robert's vicious and bombastic vitriol towards other members crosses the line.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2016 at 04:06
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Constantine/Northman:

Robert Baird has bombarded just about every topic on the forum with his own interpretations of the OP, and in doing so has deliberately, I suggest, insulted quite a few of our members.

The way his posts are constructed does not encourage healthy debate, or even room for another opinion.

I, for one, intend to ignore his ramblings and look forward to his leaving this forum-permanently!

My guess is that being ban from many forums supports his fantasy of being the guy that they want to silence.  I'm not saying he is a paranoid schizophrenic but that I know his type well.  After spending a lifetime without making any significant intellectual breakthroughs they seek their own kind of mark in the world by being the silenced one which in some sort of twisted way is rewarding.     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2016 at 08:25
Originally posted by Constantine XI Constantine XI wrote:

toyomotor, Northman took the initiative to ban him. While I personally don't have a problem with kook theories or someone simply being factually incorrect, I do agree that Robert's vicious and bombastic vitriol towards other members crosses the line.

Thanks Constantine, I didn't realise that the ban had actually been put in place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2016 at 06:44
And now, for a song.

I love to go swimmin'
with bow-legged women!
and swim between their legs!
Swim between their legs!
Swim between their legs!

Now first question is, is that song sexist?  Second question is, is that song true?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2016 at 10:00
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

And now, for a song.

I love to go swimmin'
with bow-legged women!
and swim between their legs!
Swim between their legs!
Swim between their legs!

Now first question is, is that song sexist?  Second question is, is that song true?


Well, actually, most women are knock kneed, so a bow-legged woman, I think, would be a rarity.  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2016 at 14:58
I made a pic on this topic a while back:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2016 at 03:32
silica-phobic?  Are you saying that men don't like fake boobs?

I think feminists have a point, but no one seems to appreciate how revolutionary the control of fertility is, in history, including feminists, especially feminists.  They don't appreciate the contrast of before/after and because of that they don't understand that the impact of that is still unfolding.

Of course women have traditionally had to worry about childbirth, and men have had to worry about being run through by a sword, or at least hard, dangerous physical labor.  You might say that men want that, and women don't want that, but that is not exactly true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2016 at 04:02
I'm not one to subscribe to the feminist narrative that men have always oppressed women. I think it is an insidious butchering of history. Feminist "scholars" have always purposely emphasised facts like earnings with ignored and downplayed other facts like who actually gets to spend the money without having to earn it (women earn $17Tn a year worldwide, but get to spend $28Tn).

My above graphic was just a comical way of emphasising the alarmist and dishonest way that feminists tend to view the world in contrast to everyone else.

P.S. "silica-phobic" is in reference to the fact that the major component of glassware is the chemical element silicon. Not to be confused with silicone Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2016 at 04:44
Originally posted by Constantine XI Constantine XI wrote:

I'm not one to subscribe to the feminist narrative that men have always oppressed women. I think it is an insidious butchering of history. Feminist "scholars" have always purposely emphasised facts like earnings with ignored and downplayed other facts like who actually gets to spend the money without having to earn it (women earn $17Tn a year worldwide, but get to spend $28Tn).

My above graphic was just a comical way of emphasising the alarmist and dishonest way that feminists tend to view the world in contrast to everyone else.

P.S. "silica-phobic" is in reference to the fact that the major component of glassware is the chemical element silicon. Not to be confused with silicone Wink

Feminism to a large degree is a post modernist ideology that does not recognize the importance of empirical data.  After all sexuality is a social construct Confused.

"Primatologists, who study the group of mammals that includes monkeys, apes and people, have developed some surprising ideas about the nature of the human mating system, suggesting that women may not be as faithful as their mates may suppose. And some biologists think that the deceits of the mating game may even be reflected in the hapless spermatozoon.]

Into this academic tussle, the human genome project has inserted a remarkable new finding. Drawing on the information piling up in DNA databanks, Dr. Chung-I Wu and other geneticists at the University of Chicago reported last month that three genes related to sperm function had been evolving at a particularly rapid clip in both humans and chimpanzees, but somewhat more slowly in gorillas. A brisk rate of evolution, as reflected in the number of changes in the genes' DNA sequence, implies intense selective pressure.

Dr. Wu noted that his finding fit neatly with the primatologists' inferences about sperm competition in chimpanzees, and its relative absence in gorillas. And his data seem to put humans in the same camp as chimpanzees." 


Human females it seems cannot be trusted to not become pregnant by an interloper and then expect their partner to help support the child.  In such an environment it is not surprising that males want to control females.

Another myth about human nature is that males are more abusive of childern than woman.

"More than one-half (53.5%) of perpetrators were women, 45.3 percent of perpetrators were men,."







Edited by wolfhnd - 17 Apr 2016 at 04:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2017 at 14:01
Anima/Animus, the Alchemist understood the male / female exists in all of us. I've always resented the way some women (and I'm one) have made sexual abuse a woman's issue. Of course it effects woman but also boys and men. Historically wealth , brawn and power have made overlords the woman behind the great man is no slouch. 
I kind of laughed at attempts to degrade women, it was always so clear to me we are just different from men, and I am GOOD with that difference. Always adored men, never held ancient people responsible for my life or my failures and never doubted how kool it is to be female. Witches were scary to the church male and female. I think St Augustine actually made the crack about women being sewers yet he could not get enough of that muck LOL.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2017 at 15:13
[QUOTE=Robert Baird]The future for women in the West has improved in many respects over the time since the Cathars were burned at the stake. I attribute some of these changes to what the Cathars and their Troubadours had done. Perhaps someone will convince me there is something other than a dark side to Christian history after Rome got involved - which is very early, if your definition has anything to do with some man myth called Jesus rather than what Iesa means. Numerous are the dangers a woman faced in the pursuit of anything resembling a life. The whole world still trembles. Some people may not know these things so here's some of Helen Ellerbe's book.

Hi, I think you are correct, in that many of the Cathar's beliefs are true to the early church and were eventually adopted by Protestants and Catholics to a lesser extent.
http://cathar.info/cathar_legacy.htm#protestant
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2017 at 02:01
I tend to think that men either put women on a pedestal, or in the gutter.
I think that women think differently than men, but I usually get into the
argument with women who think women think the same as men, or sometimes
they say, women think differently than men, but I think more like a man thinks.
When I say differently, I am not saying better or worse.  Viva la differance!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2017 at 04:08
Women are exactly the same as men, only different.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2017 at 00:10
People are not interchangeable widgets that can be exchanged 
 when one starts 'malfunctioning' in the "machine."
It is interesting, what you might mean by "exactly the same as men, only different."
identity and difference are complicated philosophical issues, with Plato emphasizing
identity, whereas 20th century Heidegger emphasizes difference, and Derrida differance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2017 at 00:37
In the post modernist world words have no meaning as Fransicosan seems to be trying to say without saying it.  

We live in a culture that has turned on itself to such and extent that truth is completely subjective.  Everything is a social construct but there is no society, no culture, or intellectual integrity on the left to construct much of anything out of.  Multiculturalism is the last rattling breath of a generation of hedonistic degenerates and their spawn.

A dimorphic species is not going to differentiate stopping below the neck.  Only very simple people are going to accept the propaganda spewing forth from the social justice departments of our universities.  That any of the social science deserve the title of science is questionable but when they became immersed in the degeneracy of post modernism and cultural Marxism they no longer even deserve to be considered in the league of studies such as political science.

At the recent women's march after the Trump inauguration their were feminist handing out plastic burkas as a symbol of rebellion against the patriarchy.  This is the zombie apocalypse right in front of out eyes and the multi national corporation we call the media and the universities are the spreaders of the zombie virus.  Most of hollywood and the large cities are so badly infected it is unlikely they will every recover.  There are pockets of resistance like Dave Rubin and his listeners but they are a small minority.  There will be blood in the streets if more people don't wake up and resist.       






Edited by wolfhnd - 16 Feb 2017 at 00:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2017 at 02:02
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

People are not interchangeable widgets that can be exchanged 
 when one starts 'malfunctioning' in the "machine."
It is interesting, what you might mean by "exactly the same as men, only different."
identity and difference are complicated philosophical issues, with Plato emphasizing
identity, whereas 20th century Heidegger emphasizes difference, and Derrida differance.

It's an old joke.

You can't generally compare oranges with apples, and nor can you generally compare men with women.

Whether or not you're old fashioned and believe that women should be cherished, put up on a pedestal, or believe that they shouldn't, makes no difference, regardless what various scientists and philosophers say or have said.

Women are women, the other half of our species if you like. And they are to be treated with the respect that you may pay to males.

As an old bloke, I tend to favour the love and cherish and respect school of thought.

Tell me where I'm wrong.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2017 at 03:10
Men are often competitive with each other in a way that would not be respectful towards women.  Men understand the rules implicit of such behavior, whereas women do not understand it, at least not implicitly.  That often leads to the woman being taken advantage of (in terms of social transactions), which is what men would do to a weak male in a similar social position.  Wolves have respect for other wolves, but if you are not a wolf, then you will be defined as prey, (no matter how good of a dog you might be).
Women tend to want to be equal, when it works out being equal, and they tend to want their feminine prerogative when that is advantageous as well.  I am not saying that they're wrong.  For males, who tend to be more rules oriented (vs. relation), it is hard to figure out.  Women don't like being checked out by guys, except when they do.  All that I am certain of is that you can't just come up with a (male) set of rules for (understanding) women, and follow those.  You both have to pay attention to rules, and to women, and you need to when to follow which.  Which after all, is really following the same thing.   It is all very confusing, I am sure because it is so simple.

I am of the Kenny Rogers, 'know when to hold em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run.' philosophy.  love, cherish and respect is good, but what that means can fill a library.
Now of course, women will forgive men of most sins, if they are done through love and respect.
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