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Y import 4 some1 2 look like you?

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franciscosan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2017 at 22:41
It is a lot of little things, that show a pattern.  I kind of think that maybe he outgrew it, but maybe not.
I don't know of any whites that I can think of offhand, who have the same feet of clay.  It has to do with the difference between the public persona and the private persona.  For example, Trump is fairly obvious about his 'prowess.'  There may be some question about whether he has been predatory, but he hasn't particularly hid what he has done, nor has the media.  I don't think that the WASP community is looking for the same kind of public icon of virtue that black performers serve (rightfully or not) in the black community.
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Vanuatu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2017 at 04:24
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

toyomotor ever heard of Chuck Berry and that video?   

Agreed his rockin' was hoppin' but he was a weird sob

No, I haven't. Could I have a clue of what it was about?

My Dove,


Just a much misunderstood young man, who grew into a much misunderstood old man.
But at least we know about him. It seems that as time goes by, more and more of the rich and famous are being outed for their perversions.

Personally, being a father of six children child pornography disgusts and angers me.

(No, I didn't father all of them.)

We don't do ourselves any favors by calling people out for being a little 'bedroom weird' and we do not hear about Berry's predilections every time his name is mentioned. Maybe it's Politically Correct to ignore it but depending on the scatological rites of the particular human involved, it could be a daily media drumbeat if it forwards a preferred narrative.
 
All due respect to Berry's talent but the bit about 14 year old girls being used and abused should not be overlooked.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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toyomotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2017 at 07:04
Vanuatu wrote
Quote We don't do ourselves any favors by calling people out for being a little 'bedroom weird' and we do not hear about Berry's predilections every time his name is mentioned. Maybe it's Politically Correct to ignore it but depending on the scatological rites of the particular human involved, it could be a daily media drumbeat if it forwards a preferred narrative.
 
All due respect to Berry's talent but the bit about 14 year old girls being used and abused should not be overlooked.

We never hear anything about Liberace or Danny Kaye, both of whom are highly suspect in my book, but in their time they entertained millions of people. I don't think many wanted to emulate them though.

More recently we hear about Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris and Bill Cosby and their alleged crimes. But as I said before, I have suspicions about 30 and 40 year old complaints, and in any case how could you expect an 80+ year old man to remember with clarity what he was doing 40 or so years ago.

You all know my old employment, and I think in these circumstances there should be a Statute of Limitations of about ten years, that is, no complaint within ten years of the alleged crime, no prosecution.

God created 2nd Lieutenants for the amusement of Senior NCO's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 03:47
Well there was a film made about Liberace called "Behind the Candelabra" Michael Douglas is Liberace. Yet films that would debase homosexuals are not going to be particularly appreciated. 

Danny Kaye ? What did he maybe do 70 years ago? LOL Curious I never heard a thing about him.

Not all of the accusations are 45 years old...

Andrea Constand, a former employee at Temple University, where Cosby started college in 1961, told Canadian authorities that in 2004 the comedian drugged her with "herbal pills" and then "touched her breasts and vaginal area, rubbed his penis against her hand, and digitally penetrated her," ABC News reported in 2005. She alleged the incident occurred when Cosby invited her to his home in Cheltenham, Pennsylvania.http://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnashrulla/here-are-all-the-women-who-have-accused-bill-cosby-of-sexual?utm_term=.tf0pr6qbV#.tqMeAalKv


 
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 06:50
Vanuatu

I don't know about the movie, and I don't know anything in particular about him...as I said, my suspicions.

The allegations against Cosby and Rolf Harris are possibly true, and if they are, their punishment should be harsh. But I maintain my position, I view allegations of deeds supposedly done three or more decades ago with suspicion.

I note that the allegations made by Andrea Constand were 43 years old.

Is nobody safe, who's next? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 16:46
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu

I don't know about the movie, and I don't know anything in particular about him...as I said, my suspicions.

The allegations against Cosby and Rolf Harris are possibly true, and if they are, their punishment should be harsh. But I maintain my position, I view allegations of deeds supposedly done three or more decades ago with suspicion.

I note that the allegations made by Andrea Constand were 43 years old.

Is nobody safe, who's next? 


Hi toyomotor, you stated;
"I note that the allegations made by Andrea Constand were 43 years old."

Have you misread the passage? or are you being cynical? 2004 is the year of Andrea Constand's encounter with Cosby. He is an old man by then. In this case he hasn't forgotten anything, save his Viagra.

Are you comfortable with someone like Trump being maligned bc you don't like him?

Please address the believably of adults who came forward with claims of abuse by the church that happened in some cases forty years prior to reporting. There is a reason why there is no limitation on prosecution in many states here in US.

What does Australian Law say about limitations on rape prosecution? 


For those states that have a statute of limitations for rape, some period between three to thirty years is common. However, not all states have a statute of limitations for rape and others have exceptions to their own statutes.





Edited by Vanuatu - 16 Apr 2017 at 16:50
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 17:27
Vanuatu wrote
Quote  Have you misread the passage? or are you being cynical? 2004 is the year of Andrea Constand's encounter with Cosby. He is an old man by then. In this case he hasn't forgotten anything, save his Viagra.

Yes, sorry I obviously have misread the passage.

Quote  Are you comfortable with someone like Trump being maligned bc you don't like him?

No, my only comments have been in relation to what I've read in the media. As I've explained previously, I have no idea whether the US sources are accurate or not. Trump is entitled to be treated fairly, despite all of his failings.Wink

Quote  Please address the believably of adults who came forward with claims of abuse by the church that happened in some cases forty years prior to reporting. There is a reason why there is no limitation on prosecution in many states here in US.

That's my point. I'm not sure of their believability. But I confine that remark to the allegations about the rich and famous in the US. The allegations made against priests and other church members, and in some cases, welfare groups strike a stronger chord with me. But not to say that I necessarily believe them all. I simply don't know.

Quote What does Australian Law say about limitations on rape prosecution?
In Tasmania, rape is called a Annexe 'A' crime, for which there is no period of statutory limitation.

Yes, I know I've left myself open to further argument, but, regardless of whom the allegation is made against, I still don't feel entirely comfortable with those which are 30 or 40 years old.

My qualifier to that is if there is evidence that corroberates the evidence of the victim and which indicates guilt, OK. I would view the allegation much differently.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 04:18
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That's my point. I'm not sure of their believability. But I confine that remark to the allegations about the rich and famous in the US. The allegations made against priests and other church members, and in some cases, welfare groups strike a stronger chord with me. But not to say that I necessarily believe them all. I simply don't know.

Yes, I know I've left myself open to further argument, but, regardless of whom the allegation is made against, I still don't feel entirely comfortable with those which are 30 or 40 years old.

My qualifier to that is if there is evidence that corroberates the evidence of the victim and which indicates guilt, OK. I would view the allegation much differently.


True we would rather not see behavior like this going unchecked for 30 or 40 years. It's hard to believe but if the victims aren't talking we can't expect the perpetrator to confess. It goes to people having power over others and the tendency to shame and discredit those who would defame our 'heroes.' 

Does a criminal's method used repeatedly establish circumstantial evidence?


Edited by toyomotor - 17 Apr 2017 at 04:44
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 05:04
Vanuatu wrote
Quote Does a criminal's method used repeatedly establish circumstantial evidence?

In Australia it's called Similar Fact Evidence.

If a criminal is charged with a crime, and it can be proven (most usually by prior convictions) that he has committed other crimes in the same manner (Modus Operandi or MO) it adds weight to the prosecution case. But of course there have been known to by copycats, so the Similar Fact Evidence, alone, will not secure a conviction. Nor will the evidence of an accomplice. Both need to be corroberated in same material particular relevant to the current case-forensic evidence, other witnesses etc.

And I agree that in many cases the argument of the defence, for the rich and famous can afford such luxuries, is considered more than the evidence of the victim.

I don't know much about the US jurisprudence, but if what I see on TV is any indication, it stinks IMHO. Too theatrical, too biased against what we call the Laws of Evidence.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 21:23
There is conviction in a court of law,
and there is conviction in the court of public opinion.
Or in other words, if there is a heck of a lot of smoke, it is best to get out of the building.  The difference being when you are out of the building, at some point the fire department will come in and handle it, whereas with accusations of criminal or immoral behavior, one may never find out.  But, you know, I never associated with celebrities before, and so discoveries of improprieties is not going to stop me from associating with them now.  It is unfortunate, but the smoke around Cosby interferes with my enjoyment of his comedy routines, which I grew up with.  Suspicion of OJ Simpson interferes with my enjoyment of his Naked Gun movies, etc.  And Robin Williams suicide interferes with my enjoyment of his work (although admittedly one saw it coming from a long way off, suicide is a theme in many of his movies).

But the point is that celebrities are often appropriated by society as models for society because of their ethnicity, not because of their moral leadership.  Sometimes they are appropriated as models for a particular ethnicity even though they are not "purely" that ethnicity, but are "mixed" race.  Please note, that they are model for behavior is not a problem for me because I don't think that people should pay much attention to race when thinking about who are wonderful human beings.  
Halle Berry won an Academy award for best actress when Denzel Washington won best actor.  Everybody patted themselves on the back that black actors won both best actor and best actress, which is nice, but it should be noted that Halle Berry is mixed African American and Caucasian, (as far as I can tell).  Likewise Tiger Woods is mixed African-American and Asian, although he is usually described as black.  Both are talented individuals.  And, if you want to describe Halle Berry and Tiger Woods as breaking down barriers, then that is fine.  I just think that it is important to understand what barriers they are breaking down, because it is not a matter of black "vs" white "vs" Asian "vs" whatever else in nice, neat categories.  It is kind of blowing the lid of race, like Fujimori, a Japanese-Peruvian who was elected President of Peru (and had some problems with corruption, but that is another story). 
btw Halle Berry seems like a good person to me, Tiger Woods seems to have the bad habit of liking women other than his wife, which is probably more of a problem for him then for me.  I don't know details and I don't want to know details.  Sometimes it is better that way.
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