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your nation hero

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Ergenekon View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Jun 2011 at 18:04
ours is Kemal Ataturk he look alike our Father.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2011 at 19:55
Our two 'founding fathers' (Which alone is a pathetic historical simplification, but unfortunately the proletariat need to cling on to any amount of national myth so they can convince themselves that they are part of a nation state.) are Eamon De Valera and Michael Collins. The former was the effective leader of the independent Irish State for 30 years (He experienced a few years out of office at various times) Made Ireland a theocratic mess, and made sure Ireland was the most narrow minded, economically destitute and priest ridden cesspit in western Europe.

Michael Collins led the military campaign in 1918-1921 which led to the formation of the Irish Free State. Probably the most charismatic, energetic and naturally intelligent man of his generation (Within Ireland).

My own personal heroes are two great orators; Edmund Burke and Daniel O'Connel. Burke isn't viewed as a national hero, and O'Connel is legendary not just in Europe, but across the Western world. (Led the first mass democratic campaign in the industrial age, campaigned heroically against slavery, the Act of Union and Catholic oppression in Ireland)
http://xkcd.com/15/



Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. ~George Bernard Shaw
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2011 at 01:47
We have three main "fouding fathers", but theirs history is sort of tragic and comic at the same time. They hated each other to dead. At the end, our main founding father managed to make kill the other two. Still today there are peoples that take sides about who was really the hero and who the foe. They were: Bernardo O'Higgins, Jose Miguel Carrera and Manuel Rodriguez.





Edited by pinguin - 02 Jul 2011 at 01:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2011 at 10:29
Had to think somewhat long about this, but if we're talking about England, then on reflection it has to be Elizabeth I.
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Arthur Phillip - for literally founding the first settlement. The Governor Macquarie - for transforming our first settlement from a penal colony into a proper civilian society.

Following that are men like Henry Parkes and Alfred Deakin, who were among many thinkers who worked long and hard to get the six Crown colonies to agree on the terms of federating into the one nation state.

These men aren't so much heroes but rather thinkers and administrators whose actions played an important role in shaping society.

Australians on the whole are averse to elitism and this probably has a role in stunting hero worship also. Hero worship here is reserved for sports stars, and at certain times of the year notable military figures who did their duty.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2011 at 12:14
Kevin Bridges.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xfW8RNBhmY&feature=related


Edited by Zagros - 02 Jul 2011 at 12:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2011 at 13:13

Depends how you look at it.


"Traditional" view: Gustav Vasa (king 1523-his death), the Machiavellian tyrant, whose efficient propaganda machine turned him into national myth as the father of the nation. He got rid of elective kingship and turned Sweden into a strongly centralized heriditary monarchy. To that aim he forcibly converted the country to protestantism, as a bonus stopping papal influence but above all seized the immense wealth of the Church and means to control the populace, left the Kalmar union and brutally crushed many rebellions started by the same yeomanry which had helped him into power but was rewarded with more taxes and less rights. To his honour the National Day is dedicated, being on the day he was elected king (actually not, since we switched calenders since than).




The "Nazi" view: Charles XII. Not that he had anything to do with those views, his romantized reputation as the Mighty Warrior King attracts certain followers. Irony surrounds this man's reputation today: the pacifistic leftists thinks he is anti-christ, partly because they believe he was a warmonger - that he didn't start a single war doesn't matter - partly because he has been badmouthed as a psycho, partly because the Nazis salutes him. The leftists doesn't care about the reality as long as they have something to rally against while his ultra-nationalist followers would have been disappointed in his admiration for Turkish culture, had they actually bothered to read something about him. 



Engelbrekt Engelbrektsson (139x-1436) was a German-descendant bergsman, a man involved in the mining business of Bergsl*gen. He led the popular uprising against the Pommeranian Union king whose Danish and German taxmen and sheriffs tried to apply continental serfdom on the relatively free Swedish peasantry. Whether he himself was driven by a sense of justice and liberty or was just upset that the king was hampering mining trade with the Hansa has been discussed by historians. In any case the rebellion got strong support from the population and was successful. Unfortunately at the end Engelbrekt murdered and entered martyrdom. Old Gustav's reformation stopped his carreer as a saint, but he remained a symbol of liberty. As opposed to Charles XII, he has enjoyed being a propagandistic battle-axe of Nazis and Commies alike. 



The "Should-be": Georg Adlersparre (1760-1835) didn't have the same propagandistic support as the formers, although he deserves it. He led the coup against the disastrous Gustav IV and ended the rule of Vasa descendants. The following liberal constitution of 1809, based on the short Age of Freedom (1720-1772), can be said to be the foundation of the current Swedish state as a constitutional monarchy. Unfortunately for the country and Adlersparre's legacy and fame, the new puppet king died mysteriously and a Frenchman somehow ended up on the throne, who certainly wasn't the weak puppet Adlersparre wanted to see when he abdicated his powers a few years earlier to show that the revolution was in the name of and for the people, and not for himself. History has since been rewritten, the revolution renamed "change of government" and Adlersparre is now virtually unknown. Coincidentally the day of ratification of the constitution was on June 6th, the same as the ascension of Gustav Vasa, and is cited as a reason for June 6th being the National Day (the REAL reason was probably that the ruling king at the selection of the date thought it would be a good day to have a holiday ).



"Modern view": if you're not known from TV your not a hero. The selection of faces to be on the new set of reworked Swedish bills is symptomatic for this disease: Ingmar Bergman, Greta Garbo, Evert Taube (an idol of the older generation) , Birgit Nilsson (who? yes, I agree with that question, apparently she was a singer). The kings, Nobel, Berzelius, Linnaeus etc, have to wait for less decadent times.



Edited by Styrbiorn - 02 Jul 2011 at 13:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2011 at 00:19
For shame, Styrbiorn, Birgit Nilsson was the Wagnerian soprano for the Ages and even at the end of her illustrious career could sing the girdle off of Joan Sutherland! She and her predecessor Kirsten Flagstad, with their voices, would bring Sweden absolution for the likes of Carcharadon!
 
And if you think I am kidding even the Australians thought her fantastic despite Dame Joan...of course it is a bit crude to "remember her" on currency!
 


Edited by drgonzaga - 03 Jul 2011 at 12:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2011 at 12:02
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

For shame, Styrbiorn, Birgit Nilsson was the Wagnerian soprano for the Ages and even at the end of her illustrious career could sing the girdle of Joan Sutherland! She and her predecessor Kirsten Flagstad, with their voices, would bring Sweden absolution for the likes of Carcharadon!
 
And if you think I am kidding even the Australians thought her fantastic despite Dame Joan...of course it is a bit crude to "remember her" on currency!
 

I have to admit my knowledge of opera is sorely lacking; after name-dropping Jussi Björling (incidentally I just yesterday saw the grand posters of his 100-year anniversary exhibition at the concert hall not far from here) I have depleted it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2011 at 12:04
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

"Traditional" view: Gustav Vasa (king 1523-his death), the Machiavellian tyrant, whose efficient propaganda machine turned him into national myth as the father of the nation. He got rid of elective kingship and turned Sweden into a strongly centralized heriditary monarchy. To that aim he forcibly converted the country to protestantism, as a bonus stopping papal influence but above all seized the immense wealth of the Church and means to control the populace, left the Kalmar union and brutally crushed many rebellions started by the same yeomanry which had helped him into power but was rewarded with more taxes and less rights. To his honour the National Day is dedicated, being on the day he was elected king (actually not, since we switched calenders since than).

We had one of those too, only he doesn't have a national day, probably because he had too many wives.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2011 at 13:24
PS: In case there's an urge to quibble over my mention of Kirsten Flagstad within the context of "Swedish", yes she was born in what is today Norway but in 1895 it was still part of Sweden!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2011 at 15:49
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Had to think somewhat long about this, but if we're talking about England, then on reflection it has to be Elizabeth I.


Indeed, Elizabeth I is a major figure, but perhaps the basis for his sucess were put on place by Henry VIII

But what about King Arthur? Or Cronwell, who, sort of, founded British democracy?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2011 at 16:04
King Arthur wasn't English. He would be a candidate for Welsh national hero, but on the whole I guess one has to stick to Llywellyn the Great.
 
Cromwell was a military dictator and a tyrant. I don't know that he ever had a democratic thought in his head. He was fast enough to squelch Parliament when he wanted to, and rule despite it, just as Charles I had tried to do. Luckily he died relatively young and his son was too weak to carry on the succession.


Edited by gcle2003 - 03 Jul 2011 at 16:06
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