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Your Personal Beliefs and Religious Adherences?

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    Posted: 11 Aug 2009 at 21:02
Hello Everyone,
 
I personally consider the topic of beliefs and religious views to be an outstanding one -- after all, every person has his own religious views, takes on the morales and life. However, while discussing them, we must always remain concious of the facts that people can also be easily offended when speaking of these topics. Yet, I feel it would make for an enlightening discussion if we decided to look deeper into each other and express in words what are the views and beliefs we adhere to.
 
These topics need a good starter though, and I'll hope to provide it as well. Sorry for the quotation, but it seemed to work better like that. Smile
 
Originally posted by Rider Rider wrote:

My personal beliefs are a mixture of different real-world (and imaginary) religious movements, plus the historical moralities on different subjects by different communities and eras. To begin with, I do not believe in a God (or gods) as such, although I have a clear sense of Fate and I also believe that the world is bind together by an all-powerful force which guides us all. To name it God might be correct, but again not, since I do not consider it taking particular interest in us, nor what we do, *though* I think that our fates are pre-determined (and anything we do or think are also predetermined by this system or entity) and decided //correspondingly to this, I do trust that everything which is happening now at this very second is happening in infinite other ways in an infinite number of other realities, in each of which I am doing something (perhaps subtly different, eg misspelling a word in this post)//.
 
Alongside this, I have not accepted any purely Christian concepts of life due to its views on the concept of suicide. I personally view suicide as a way to leave life when the person feels that life has become too much; or when it is the only honourable way of leaving. This is naturally influenced by the historical communities/eras of Rome and Japan. However, there are clear ways of suicide which I consider to be non-acceptable (such as hanging oneself) and demeaning.
 
I mentioned honour in the previous post, and it is quite true that I have developed some sense of honour and that I consider honour to be important -- eg a person who sneaks in the shadows all the time is below the status of a normal person who walks in the light of day. This is not to say however that honour means being truthful all the time because I do not accept such a term as truth -- for every different entity in this Universe, there is a different version of truth. Perhaps even the rocks and grains of sand have their own perception of the world, that being their truth? Thereby, I do not accept any 'truth' just as that. However, that doesn't mean that there are no lies -- outright lies are something which I despise to the utmost.
 
That's my beliefs in a very small nutshell -- I suppose I could write a diserrtation on it if I had to... If anyone has any questions in relation to that, then you are welcome to ask them.
 
Thanks,
 
 
Anyone else?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2009 at 22:01
I'm an agnostic with occasional Catholic guilt. I respect the figure of Jesus in the New Testament, as a sort of 'contribution' to the philosophy and ethical basis of the world, but thats as far as it goes. I try not to be an ass when discussing religious issues with believers, and I've greatly moved away from my earlier attachment to the Jacobinism of Dawkins and Hitchens.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2009 at 22:10
Catholic guilt? Is that the same as Jewish angst? Well, doubt is a good dose of medication that prevents both from becoming absolutely ubearable and borish in a social setting, which is the typical trait of the atheist as brilliantly illustrated by Hitchens.

Edited by drgonzaga - 11 Aug 2009 at 22:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2009 at 23:02
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Catholic guilt? Is that the same as Jewish angst? Well, doubt is a good dose of medication that prevents both from becoming absolutely ubearable and borish in a social setting, which is the typical trait of the atheist as brilliantly illustrated by Hitchens.


I'm too aware of my ignorance, and societies ignorance to make a case for or against God. There are too many compelling and rational arguments from both sides I've never read, and never will have the chance to read.

There is nothing more bizarre than talking to someone who is absolutely convinced about the 'truth' of the universe. I tend to believe that the very idea of 'truth' itself is open to doubt...


Edited by Parnell - 11 Aug 2009 at 23:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2009 at 09:46
Fundamentally Religious in every conceivable way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2009 at 09:51
Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

Fundamentally Religious in every conceivable way.
 
What does this mean? Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2009 at 15:22
Originally posted by rider rider wrote:

Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

Fundamentally Religious in every conceivable way.
 
What does this mean? Confused
 
Well,  all human virtue has seemingly been monopolised by religion, so I might as well not fight it and accept that every ounce of my being is fundamentally religious.
 


Edited by Dolphin - 12 Aug 2009 at 15:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2009 at 22:16
And what fundamental religious beliefs do you adhere to?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2009 at 02:50
I was raised to be a Catholic, but I am atheist, and some would call me an agnostic. I don't believe in any religions, nor gods, and hold that we really don't know what happened to cause the beginning of the universe. However, I hold the existence of gods at a low percentage, and not 50/50 like agnostics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Karrde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2009 at 03:59
I am a Christian. I was raised Southern Baptist, though my family is largely Catholic by default. I believe in an eternal and uncreated being who exists as One-in-three-persons (ie God the Father, Jesus Messiah, and the Holy Spirit). No, this is not polytheism as some will accuse. I believe that God created all things, which culminated in the creation of Man. 

Man, in the Garden of Eden, was made good and with a free will. As were the angels, though the two were made with different roles in relation to God. Prior to the Fall, the angel known as Lucifer choose to rebel against God's authority and thus was cast out of heaven. Men were made to serve God as viceroys, if you will, on the Earth. They were given dominion over creation and were to attend to the Garden and multiple to fill Earth. However, Satan, in further rebellion against God, entered the Garden and manipulated Adam and Eve into sinning (sinning being rebellion against God). 

Thus we have the Fall of Man. The order of creation/earth is thus corrupted:
Pre-Fall
God > Man > Creation
After-Fall
God > Satan > Man/Creation

In this new order, Man is tainted with sin. This flows down hill, since God had given man dominion over creation, corrupting the world as well (also we see the curses pronounced by God on Man). The effects are numerous: physical death, disease, violence, ect. Satan now rules what will come to be called the Present Evil Age or This Age or The Age of the Flesh. God still holds absolute sovereignty over all things, but because of free will allowed Man to go down the path it has chosen. One of sin's major effects however is the damaging, if you will, of free will. Instead of being essentially good with the choice to obey or rebel, humankind is now enslaved/bent towards sin. Christians call this Original Sin. 

Now because God is just there must be punishment for rebellion. This punishment comes in the form of death-physical death. In the Bible life (many times translated 'soul') is a combination of body/soul/mind. The separation of the body and soul/mind is unnatural to humans and therefore a terrible thing. This physical death is caused by mankind's disconnect from God, the source of all life. This disconnect continues on past physical death and is why there is an eternal aspect to punishment in the Bible. 

God, as understood in the Bible, is not only perfectly Just but also is perfectly Loving. To be consistent with His nature, God therefore has established a plan to reconcile not only Man, but all of Creation, to Himself. This plan unfolds in various stages throughout history (called Salvation History). To a Christian history is driven by God's power breaking into history. To this end God forms a people for himself, the Israelites, who are spread the message of God throughout the Gentiles (non-Israelites). In the Old Testament the concept of Salvation is almost entirely political: in Egypt they Israelites cry out for salvation from bondage. After the Exodus when Israel is disobedient, they came under domination by other groups (Philistines, Moab, ect). When they had repented and come back to obedience, they would cry out for salvation: and God will remove the political/military domination. We see this pattern with Assyria, Babylon, the Persians, the Greeks, and eventually Rome. 

Now the latter cases are a bit different. Under Persia only a remnant returns to the land. They are still ruled over by a pagan, Gentile nation. This continues until Antiochus Epiphanes makes a grave mistake and the Maccabean Revolt and the short-lived Hasmonean dynasty. But then comes the Romans and (at first) a client kingdom under Herod and his ilk. Then eventually total Roman control.
In this time of Roman-Herod domination comes Christ. To the Christian faith, he changes the game. God Incarnate comes to Earth to fulfill the role of Messiah as prophesied the OT. 

I would go further into his message, but I don't want to break the rule of preaching on the forums, so I'll give a brief summary: ultimately, Jesus Messiah brings the Kingdom of God and preaches the Good News about it. This message is ultimately political (God/Messiah is Lord, not Caesar and all who bow to him will gain eternal life) which is why he is crucified. But to show the superiority of God and his Messiah, Jesus is resurrected, the promised hope for all who will bow the knee to God. Not heaven, though it is a stopping point. 

That is, in brief, my views on religion/faith. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2009 at 20:49
I do not believe in any religion because religion is an unscientific body of information based on ancient superstitions which, for better and worse, guides the life of much of the world's population.

I do not believe in a creator, though I do not rule out the possibility in that something deliberately concocted the ingredients for life and let it flourish through evolution to what we have today.

I will not even try to theorise on why we're here, how we came to be etc. I believe it is futile and pointless.  What I do know for certain is that there are a very many things that we do not know and some things which our intellect is completely unable to even comprehend.  Such things, for example, though they may be around us in a way which determines why life exists and what it is, are completely beyond our reasoning and ability to logically assimilate into our minds.

I believe we are unable to comprehend such forces because we are simply not intelligent enough and will never be unless by further neurological evolutionary leaps (which I cannot see forthcoming).

Think of it this way: a dog is aware of a car, it may be aware that cars are a form of transport, but... this dog will never hope to be able to understand where the car came from, why and how it works.





Edited by Zagros - 02 Oct 2009 at 20:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frederick Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2009 at 21:07
I'm a Catholic by default. No one asked me my opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2009 at 21:18
Originally posted by Emperor Barbarossa Emperor Barbarossa wrote:

I was raised to be a Catholic, but I am atheist, and some would call me an agnostic. I don't believe in any religions, nor gods, and hold that we really don't know what happened to cause the beginning of the universe. However, I hold the existence of gods at a low percentage, and not 50/50 like agnostics.
 
Agnostics don't believe it is 50/50.
 
Agnostics don't know what the odds are. Which is very different from knowing they are even.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2009 at 21:22
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Originally posted by Emperor Barbarossa Emperor Barbarossa wrote:

I was raised to be a Catholic, but I am atheist, and some would call me an agnostic. I don't believe in any religions, nor gods, and hold that we really don't know what happened to cause the beginning of the universe. However, I hold the existence of gods at a low percentage, and not 50/50 like agnostics.
 
Agnostics don't believe it is 50/50.
 
Agnostics don't know what the odds are. Which is very different from knowing they are even.


Exactly. I consider myself an agnostic but would love to believe in a God, particularly a Christian God, but my mind just won't let me. Every time I contemplate it a host of reasons creep into my brain to reject it. The fact that I still think about it and recognise there is a chance I'm wrong is what encourages me. I'm the ultimate reluctant agnostic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2009 at 21:37
Catholic of the agnostic variety...
Or "atheistic, thanks God"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2009 at 21:45
I'm sort of a spiritual agnostic who, while holding that we humans cannot know anything about divine matters, is fully open to the possibility that those matters exist and thinks that if the afterlife, universal justice and all-knowing ruler are all real, it would be great.

Unavoidably, my cultural values are heavily influenced by Protestant Christianity and it's probably the religion I'm the closest to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2009 at 21:50
What if the hereafter is what you believe it to be?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2009 at 00:06
If so I can't elaborate here without breaking the CoC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ulrich von hutten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2009 at 06:56
I belief in nothing, but hope that everyone beliefs in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2009 at 08:18
In a nutshell... I am a Christian plain and simple, with no need for any particular denomination, though i was raised a Methodist and with a few years of my teens spent as an agnostic.  I also believe science and religion can and do compliment one another quite well. It is only by the growing ignorance for one another beliefs and values that threatens to keep them apart.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2009 at 09:58
Originally posted by Reginmund Reginmund wrote:

If so I can't elaborate here without breaking the CoC.
 
I do think that unless you were planning to move into profanities you are free to post anything in this topic (except spam and flaming, of course) -- since this topic asks for your opinion, it can not be considered preaching, even if your wording is a bit off the hook.
 
Go ahead, mate!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2009 at 11:44
Originally posted by ulrich von hutten ulrich von hutten wrote:

I belief in nothing, but hope that everyone beliefs in me.
 Don't worry Ulrich - if you didn't exist we would have to invent you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2009 at 12:35
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Originally posted by ulrich von hutten ulrich von hutten wrote:

I belief in nothing, but hope that everyone beliefs in me.
 Don't worry Ulrich - if you didn't exist we would have to invent you.


Every forum needs an Ulrich. (I get the quote, by the way!)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2009 at 15:13
Originally posted by Reginmund Reginmund wrote:

.Unavoidably, my cultural values are heavily influenced by Protestant Christianity and it's probably the religion I'm the closest to.

Recently I have started to note the same thing too. I'm as atheist as I can be, but I notice my values are closer to protestantism than to other religions. If you'd put me in a room with a Catholic and a Protestant with equally strong convictions I'll probably get along better with the Protestant than with the Catholic.

I'm still not sure whether it is because I am Dutch or because of my own personality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2009 at 16:38
I was brought up Christian, but I don't believe in a literal Christ anymore.
 
I do believe in an existance that transcends the physical world, something that we get fragmentary glimpses of through all the religions, science, art etc... that are part of the human experience.
we have a blind date with destiny..and it looks like she's ordered the lobster
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